Wednesday, October 13, 2010

The Truth

I am an employee at Valve. I do work on an unrelated project from IceFrog, but I have many friends who work with him on a daily basis. This blog is the culmination of what I have learned about IceFrog, also known as Abdul Ismail, directly from people who are currently working with him. Their names will stay anonymous for their sake and mine. You might want to ask why I am posting this. Why do I risk me and my friends's jobs? The answer is that ever since Abdul has joined Valve, he has been poisonous to the company. He is incredibly hard to work with, absolutely impossible to talk to in person due to a complete lack of social skills, and easily holds the most unpleasantly domineering work personality of anyone I have ever met. This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of almost everyone I know who has come in contact with him. Abdul's project is not only becoming one of the most controversial inside the office, but one of the most controversial outside. He is taking the company in a direction I thought we would never head in because he demanded unparalleled control and for some reason was granted it.


What is most interesting about Abdul is that he is a compulsive liar. When he was hired, none of us knew about his past. In fact, we were all on the assumption that he had made it thus far on his own. Several of us silently questioned how he could've devoted so much time after graduation to a hobby despite there being a giant hole on his resume, but we knew that he was an eccentric character, and assumed that he was being supported by his family. It was not until Riot Games's Steve Mescon, also known as Pendragon, made his infamous blog post on www.dota-allstars.com that the truth began to come out. Everyone here assumed it was a very dirty marketing scheme by the Riot Games guys, or even that S2 Games and Riot Games were making up stories to discredit us. In fact, our legal team had previously sent infringement notifications to S2 Games over their usage of what we believed to be IceFrog's content. I was told that S2 Games was asked to remove all DOTA content altogether, and that because of this, we would have the rights to DOTA content.

A lot of us had sensed that there was something fishy going on from the beginning. We scoured the internet for any evidence that would implicate Abdul. Eventually, we found it on a HON blog. The process is incredibly easy, and you can replicate it yourself.
  1. Search for "Abdul Ismail" on Google.
  2. The 8th result is for MyLife.com. Click it.
  3. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page.
  4. Click on Abdul Ismail Bellevue, 27.
Voila. Or in the words of Kudo Tsunoda, BAM, there it is. We found that that Abdul lived in:
  1. New Bedford, MA: very close to his alma mater
  2. Rohnert Park, CA: where S2 Games is located
  3. Bellevue, WA: where we are
As if that were not evidence enough of foul play, a professional DOTA player who claims to be in the know revealed this also replicatable piece of information.
  1. Go to http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php, a site that tracks campaign donors.
  2. Under employees, search for Marc DeForest, who is the owner of S2 Games.
  3. You will find Abdul Ismail employed as a programmer under Marc DeForest.
In a process unrelated to mine, Abdul was eventually confronted about his hidden past by the Valve higher-ups. We found out that not only did he lie about DOTA, but he lied about his involvement with both Riot Games and S2 Games. As I said at the start of this blog, you can go to www.dota-allstars.com to brush up on that history. This is the equivalent of the CEO of McDonald's (DOTA) looking for a job at Burger King (Riot Games), then working for Fatburger (S2 Games), then quitting and going to work for Wendy's (Valve) but outright lying to Wendy's of his involvement with ANY previous employer, despite the fact that he had contributed to a significant chunk of development with each company. In the corporate world, this would be the equivalent of stealing trade secrets. But instead, this is the game development business, and the rules are not so established. What upsets me most, and the ultimate reason I am writing this, is that any ethical company  would have dropped Abdul right here and reconsidered their options. We are not doing that, and instead are pushing ahead with full force. Sorry guys, but the truth has to come out sooner or later.

EDIT: Now that the Game Informer article has been released, you can see the extent to which Valve is willing to protect Abdul. Let me ask you this, Gabe. If Abdul were the renaissance man as you claim he is, why is Erik leading the project? Even Erik betrays himself when he says that "our first reaction is to assume that [design elements are] there for a reason". No, your first realization was that Abdul was a poor designer, but because of his bullying personality and his scheming, he managed to convince you to build the game as-is per his instructions. That's what happens when you go from being a shoe salesman to directing a game you didn't play, isn't it?

479 comments:

  1. so what this is saying is that Valve sucks at background checking?

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  2. It's more likely that Valve knew the entire deal from the start and just a bunch of money grabbing assholes. Whether the people in the office knew is another matter, but I'd be suprised if the higher ups of a multi-million dollar company were so stupid.

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  3. I find this part especially entertaining,
    "Why do I risk me and my friends's jobs? The answer is that ever since Abdul has joined Valve, he has been poisonous to the company. He is incredibly hard to work with, absolutely impossible to talk to in person due to a complete lack of social skills, and easily holds the most unpleasantly domineering work personality of anyone I have ever met."

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  4. I'm sorry Valve but this is what you get for hiring someone with no potential development skills, WC3 maps do not count as they are simple to make.

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  5. 5 bucks says the dota fan boys will still be sucking his dick even after this.

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  6. Whats more likely the person you know nothing about (icefrog) is actually shit bag or multiple people / gaming companies put their reputation on the line to trash the nice guy who was key in developing a game they love?

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  7. Any old-timer WC3 player could tell you that:
    1. DotA Allstars was not the first DotA
    2. DotA Allstars stole content from other DotA maps
    3. DotA Allstars was not created by Icefrog

    I do admire the work Icefrog has put into DotA since its development was handed off to him, but he is in no way its creator.
    Check your facts, Valve.

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  8. True he didn't create it, but if you're any sort of Dota player, 6.01 and 6.69 are not even the same game.

    Icefrog has built a skyscraper of a game out of Dota, but Guinsoo installed the basement.

    This isn't to say that IceFrog isn't a dick, maybe he is; but all this pointless conjecture about HURR ICEFROG ISN'T ORIGINAL is just coming from faggots who haven't been playing Dota long enough.

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  9. The main thing that springs to mind is.. What's to say this is even true?

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  10. Well the part about him working for s2 is true.

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  11. This is the most hilarious shit ever. Thanks for writing this!

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  12. And this is the blog of a angry toilet cleaner who works at Valve.

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  13. "I am an employee at Valve."

    nope.avi

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  14. This is so out of the blue that I'm willing to call truth until proven otherwise. All of this rings very true, both for Valve's spirit of latitude given to a newcomer and for the actual background of that IceFrog.
    I hope future commenters are going to refrain from jumping on this blog and insulting the author and rather bring actual, hard facts to counter any claims that might be false.

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  15. how is this at all out of the blue fae? are you dense? this is probably some /v/ trolling

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  16. That's one fiesty feline.

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  17. Have you tried the steps listed in the article?

    It's one thing to be a fan of a game and another to be a fanboy. Fanboys are fucking stupid scum who blindly follow something/someone. It's as pointless as religion.

    It's well-documented that Abdul Ismail has worked for S2 games, and if you are still denying that then you are a retard or a fanboy, but I repeat myself.

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  18. this guy must have nearly drowned in the haterade pool

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  19. Icefrogs a fucking weasel. People, stop sucking on icefrogs cock and see the truth, dont let icefrogs semen blind you from seeing the light, blind you from seeing the cold hard facts. This post alone may not be truth but somewhere out there, there is and is similar to this.

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  20. PICS.. OR NEVER HAPPENED

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  21. its easy to make up stories, and even easier when you have to hide your identity in them. gj

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  22. REPLAY OR NEVER HAPPENED

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  23. What is the main point of this?

    DotA fans won't really give a shit if IceFrog indeed lied about his past involvement with S2 or not.

    They care about the game and DotA having more than 10 millions players is a proof that IceFrog is doing a really good job at it.

    The only thing that would scare me is something like " The truth about dota 2 : it will suck " but that's obviously never gonna happen.

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  24. What is the main point of this?

    DotA fans won't really give a shit if IceFrog indeed lied about his past involvement with S2 or not.

    They care about the game and DotA having more than 10 millions players is a proof that IceFrog is doing a really good job at it.

    The only thing that would scare me is something like " The truth about dota 2 : it will suck " but that's obviously never gonna happen.


    Dota doesnt have more than 10 million players lol. At best it has <1 million without counting the free loaders who pirate Wc3.

    Dota fans wont give a shit if he lied because his cock is so far in their mouth that they cant talk back, even worst, icefrogs semen is blocking is on their eyes so they cant see the truth lololo

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  25. Exactly, he could have fucked his mother and I wouldn't care as long as Dota 2 comes out great.

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  26. this is a complete joke, anyone who believes this is a retard.

    3/4 of the post is telling us what we already knew months ago and the rest 1/4 is telling us that IceFrog is a jerk. LMAO.

    get real kids.

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  27. im pretty sure i read somewhere that icefrog helped to dev. HoN to some extent along time ago, probably in one of Icefrog blogposts.

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  28. what a bullshit...

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  29. huge hon fan. Probably gonna buy dota2 but in all honesty icefrog isnt wat made dota. There have been multiple creators and icefrog is simply the latest.

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  30. PEOPLE! get icefrogs cock out of your throat and heres a tissue *hands a tissue* to clean off the semen from your eyes so you can see the truth

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  31. All this info is really old. Anyone could use google to find it. So I really doubt this is from a Valve employee. Why would they choose to post that Icefrog is a douche now, rather than posting this info when it became available this past summer?

    Prove you're really a Valve employee by getting today's newspaper and take a picture of it near a valve landmark
    http://media.photobucket.com/image/valve%20headquarters/left4dead411/lpic16.jpg
    http://origin.arstechnica.com/reviews/games/unwrapping-the-orange-box.media/gabe-2.jpg

    obviously you don't have to be in the picture

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  32. I dont really care if IceFrog is doing things that are frowned upon (even though they dont really matter and they affect you positively); What I would care about, and what would anger me is if Valve attempted to hijack DoTA 2.0 from IceFrog. I think it's great that he has control over the project, he took DoTA and made it something amazing without much to work with from the start. Why shouldnt he be trusted? You may respond with "Because he's been lying," but I don't think the end is governed by the means. If IceFrog thinks something should stay secret then it probably should, if IceFrog wants to add something to the game without telling anyone then let him do so; There are millions of people that would stand up for IceFrog in an instant, do you even know what he created?

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  33. Also how can we be sure he isnt a terrorist with a name like Abdul???

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  34. "Also how can we be sure he isnt a terrorist with a name like Abdul??? "
    paranoid much ?

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  35. This is hilarious if its really true I feel sorry for the people at Valve. Maybe though this is posted by a bitter ex-dota dev who didnt get to cash in on its success.

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  36. Properly some HoN/LoL gay fanboy who wrote this.

    Who cares if Icefrog have been working with S2, his heart lies in DotA anyways...

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  37. Provide us with a picture mr. valve employee.

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  38. Lets see. You wrote that you "know" (no names, ofc!) some guys working with Icefrog and that your a Valve Employee. Why exactly would you want to lower the image of Icefrog by posting this? You could lose your job and your firm Valve will mb lose some sales on Dota2. Troll Check Number 1.

    Next thing, you dont proof anything. You dont post names, pictures or anything. Mhm. Troll Check Number 2.

    About Abduls name. That was already posted on Gosugamers and its one of three of possible names of Icefrog. Again you dont post a picture of him or proof in anyway that he is working on Dota2.
    Its not big of a secret that Icefrog worked for S2, no1 can denie that.

    About your Edit: Its fuckin obvious that Icefrog doesnt lead the project (why didnt u know this before?), because he doesnt have experience in gamedesigning.

    I btw dont play Dota anymore, but i play HoN atm (well its the new dota.) and i know about Icefrog that he is the real creator of Dota. I played dota since Guinsos, back than there were about 100 people who played the map, it sucked and was imbalanced. Icefrog improved it in the last 6-7 years. He made it one of the best games in the moment and i really apriciates the work he put into this. I prefer Hon because of its obvious features, but i see no reason why this is needed. Icefrog wants to stay anonymous and thats fine. If he makes an awesome Dota2, Ill play it. If not - Ill stay with Hon.

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  39. If he is hard to work with, then speak to Senior Management or even Human Resources. Get it done and it'll eventually lead him to speak with someone above him. If many people are dissatisfied with him, then it should be no problem to accomplish this.

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  40. Valve has been moneygrabbing ever since L4D

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  41. Cool story mr.Riot games employee( i wouldn't be suprised if it was written by drama king pendragon himself)

    Unfortunately as soon dota 2 is released you will end up under the birdge.

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  42. I really could give two shits about the personalities of the people developing my games.

    Keep in mind
    a) DotA was shit till icefrog came along
    b) All the work on DotA gave 0 profit to Icefrog

    So honestly I don't care that he might have worked for S2. The truth is this game should be really good.

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  43. who give a shit about all that, IceFrog donated money to Ron Paul's campaign LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

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  44. Very entertaining!
    You know what? I completely dont fucking care, Dota 2 will be great.

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  45. >implying he is an employee at valve

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  46. Hello Mr. Pendragon! Enjoying the fact that your game will die next year?

    Maybe, just maybe, if you get rid of Shurelia, you might have a chance!

    A fat chance. HA. Get it?

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  47. HERES THE FUCKN PROOF FOLKS!
    I FINALLY FOUND A FUKN PIC OF ICFROG! HA! BELIEVE IT OR NOT!
    http://helsinkippusa.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/frozengrog.jpg

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  48. You may not give shit about how his personality is but it is a very important factor when working within a team. When you go through normal interview process...well anywhere they make sure to cater questions in order to determine how people work within a team environment. On the customer side, you're right, it won't matter but it DOES matter on the EMPLOYEE side. If the EMPLOYEES are not happy then you get shit product.

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  49. Gabe sees what you did there ಠ_ಠ

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  50. "That's what happens when you go from being a shoe salesman to directing a game you didn't play, isn't it?"

    No, anonymouse whistleblower, YOU are the massive cunt in this tale.

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  51. sounds like some butthurt fan rather than a valve employee. troll harder faggot.

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  52. Icefrog has made a great game that is awesome, I really don't care if he's an antisocial douche, he could have killed fifteen people and I would still love his game.

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  53. i am a valve employee and can confirm gabe newell likes to eat

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  54. i dont get it? so you dont like him, so he lied about his experience to make himself seem less experienced? im missing something here, if i were valve, making dota, i would want to hire someone with alot of dota background. so his time at riot and sc2 would be a plus. this is how the world works.

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  55. Sorry, but this sound like a huge pile of bullshit. I'll be getting the game anyway since it's a Valve game. Now go cry in your corner.

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  56. It's kinda funny the different responses we're seeing today between IceFrogTruth and EALouse "tell all" blogs. In the case of EA, unfounded accusations are treated as gold and everyone there is going "HELLS YEAH" and treating it like gospel truth

    Whereas here, accusations are made with some proof to back them up, and folks are more likely to tell this guy to fuck off and defend Valve.

    EA is generally hated and gamers look for any excuse to fuel that hatred, regardless of anything.

    Valve is generally loved and gamers look for any excuse to fuel that love, regardless of anything.

    Kind of amusing really.

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  57. No one owns DOTA, not Valve or Pendragon and especially Icefrog. If Valve was an ethical company they would have made a DOTA spinoff without Icefrog and still would have been able to sell the game without consent from anyone. I don't know how Valve can consciously take the DOTA title and make a DOTA 2 without considering the real people behind it. None of the original creators would have given Icefrog "Allstars" if they knew he was going to attempt to profit from it.

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  58. "No one owns DOTA"
    http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=85102245

    someone will soon...

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  59. OMG! It's on the internet IT MUST BE TRUE!

    This is most likely the work of the same asshole who created this

    http://icefrogslife.tk/

    Nothing but a troll with a knack for making up bullshit.

    Nothing to see here people, move along.

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  60. Hello Mr. Pendragon! Enjoying the fact that your game will die next year?
    Maybe, just maybe, if you get rid of Shurelia, you might have a chance!

    A fat chance. HA. Get it?
    -------------------------------------------------
    I doubt LoL will die when dota2 comes. What will die is wc3 DotA and probably HoN. LoL is far less related to dota, and most people who play it have never played dota before.

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  61. Icefrogs updates of DOTA and HON were much better than anything else offered in this genre, he's already proven he do a lot of work on his own (DOTA) or with a team (HoN). Whatever he's like in real life he has much more talent than the others who've worked on DOTA, just compare their work with his.

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  62. I'm gonna go ahead and call it: this was posted by Abdul.

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  63. And if the game sucks... because of what is said here - people will just go back to playing dota on WC3 like they did after those failures known as LoL and HoN.

    Welcome to the Truth

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  64. I also work for valve and everything said here is true. Abdul's horrible work is pulling apart valve. The loyal employees are quickly losing faith in the whole company...

    See, now what I just said there was a lie. Just like the blog post. Most of the information is from the internet and anyone could have discovered. The stuff about valve itself is extremely vague and anyone could have fabricated it.

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  65. Which consumer gives a shit about any of this? If worth dealing with at all, it's Valve's job.


    Fucking drama queen, go defame people who deserve it.


    Also, if you're really a Valve employee, I hope your superiors find out and fire your double-faced, snakey self.

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  66. who gives a shit who icefrog is, his personality, his favorite color, or what he has personally done to offend the author of this blog post

    he has done a great job with DotA and i'm sure with the resources at his disposal at Valve he will do a great job with DotA 2.0

    if you like playing the game, just play the game and stfu about it

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  67. this is totally awesome, i suggest you should become a political ... you are perfect at telling the "truth", but your level of education might not fit ...

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  68. I doubt LoL will die when dota2 comes. What will die is wc3 DotA and probably HoN. LoL is far less related to dota, and most people who play it have never played dota before.

    _________________________________________

    Are you a retard? LoL and Pendragon run around with their dicks hanging out with the word SUCCESSOR OF DOTA Tattooed down the 3 inch thing. They claim to be the original creators of Dota when guinsoo sucked dick at it and only got hired for his name. If you think IceFrog fanboys are bad I don't know what the fuck you call the LoL/HoN dick suckers posting here

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  69. Let's be honest here....

    Dota, Icefrog and Valve fans GET THAT COCK OUT OF YOUR THROAT SERIUSLY, it's so far in there you can't even talk shit right, even worst, Icefrog's semen is on your eyes so you can't see the truth. Seriously, grab this tissue and wipe that semen off your face you girls

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  70. My guess would be you don't work for Valve, just someone who hates Icefrog ... and my guess would be he is an Asshole, and it's a shame to see people like him working at Valve.

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  71. http://i.imgur.com/SQBF8.png

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  72. i am a valve employee and i approve this message.

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  73. Yes, I'm Abdul. Yes, I did dabble in a few companies. However, my intentions should be clear: I just want to advance MOBA games as a genre. Look at the games that have spawned. Can you honestly tell me that without me, something of this magnitude would've happened? No.

    Don't bother asking me to confirm my identity. I've said what I've had to, and will not be returning to this "blog."

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  74. Yes, I'm Abdul, I am an Muslim Extremeist. Yes, I did dabble in a few companies. However, my intentions should be clear: I just want money money money and bomb a few buildings. Can you honestly tell me that without me, something of this magnitude would happen? No.

    Asking me to confirm my identity. I've said what I've had to, and will be returning to this "blog

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  75. aww yeah

    im abdul

    i are the double agent

    and i gonna rape everyone

    brb, getting job offer from EA

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  76. IT'S ME

    GABEN

    I DONT CARE ABOUT ICEFROG

    ALL I WANT IS THE MOOOOOOONEEEEY

    HEEEREEEE COOOOOMES THE MOOOONEEEEEEEY

    CHA-CHING

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  77. One might wonder why all the admins and stuff followed IceFrog when the forums split, how he maintains the beta-community etc if he was such a pain.

    I smell bullshit.

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  78. This blog has so much bullshit in it, it makes my toilet look like the fucking Mecca.

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  79. Am I the only one who doesn't care?

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  80. And how the hell did he even manage before all the clones showed up and he didn't have anyone to "SUCK BLOOD FROM, OMG LEECHER" ? It doesn't even make any sense. He still developed for a good 2 - 3 years before any of those showed up.

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  81. Dont care about this but come check out my blog!!!

    http://ncnytes.blogspot.com

    Free cookies (ok no free cookies, but I could use the traffic♥)

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  82. I bet IceFrog is going to turn around and backstab Valve by trying to sell the game to EA or Activision lol.

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  83. This blog has so much denial in it, it makes George Bush look like the pope.

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  84. I love the amount of "Anonymous said..." complaining about the lack of transparency in the above post.

    But I dont blame them, I think I'll do the same...

    0.o

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  85. dude Icefrog is a chick

    how can his name be abdul?

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  86. to be honest, this guy doesnt know what hes talking about, I understand your saying IceFrog is a jackass and is a hard person to socialize with, but WE DONT need to know that when the game comes out. WE DONT CARE if you guys have a hard time socializing it just needs to meet the consumers and the fanboys standards. I've also read somewhere that ICEFROG did work for S2. But Wouldnt it be suprising in the first place if S2 or Riot Games made their game without IceFrog? WOULD THEY really know how the game worked if they have never played a game of dota? OR HOW LONG IT TOOK FOR ICEFROG TO MAKE DOTA AS TO PRESENT DAY? you obviously dont understand much, i recommend you go search DOTA on google and see HOW MUCH of a following this game has and how MUCH IT HAS GROWN before you go and trash ICEFROG.

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  87. Can someone post a brief history of DOTA here? That way we can understand what is going on right now.

    Someone said that Riot games has worked with Guinsoo for LoL and they couldn't get what they want and try to troll IceFrog.

    And I think one man is not enough to destroy Valve within.

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  88. Also I remember a few years back I read a news about Icefrog that he left updating DotA to work with LOL or HON (I can't remember which one) So people are already know where IceFrog worked before I guess.

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  89. Guinsoo and Eul were the original creators, Guinsoo especially. They started the mod with inspiration from the map Aoen of Strife that existed in Starcraft 1. Years later it was passed on to Icefrog because had something going on in their life so they didnt have the time to develop this- for free. Guinsoo is hired by Riot to develop LoL, in which time, Icefrog is working on Dota and working along with S2 behind the scenes to develop HON and hes also working on LoL (the 2 games were development around the same time frame). Now here's the deal...neither S2 nor Riot knew Icefrog was working with both of them, so thats where the controversy of a few weeks ago came out of. Now that Icefrog is finished with his contracts with S2 and Riot, he picks up a Valve one (he was actually actively finding a company that would pick him up and give him cash - valve was the one foolish enough). So right now he may or may not be working with someone else lol, heck, for all we know, he could making a stand alone version by himself using the resources he has at valve. In other words, Icefrog is a weasel and everyone should stop loving him so much

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  90. Amazing.. All the facts check out, it's not something you could fake without a lot of effort.

    So assuming everything is true.. I'll miss Valve after IceFrog breaks it. =(

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  91. It does NOT add up.

    League of Ledends:

    "It was first announced on October 7, 2008 and released on October 27, 2009.[6] The game was in a closed beta from April 10, 2009 to October 22, 2009.[7] It then transitioned to open beta until release.[8]"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Legends

    HON:

    According to S2 staff member "Idejder," Heroes of Newerth has been in development for "34 months, but the first 13 were spent on engine development. The entirety of assets, including maps, items, heroes, and art were made in 21 months."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_of_Newerth#Development

    That still leaves Icefrog with 2 years of development with DotA only. This so called "evidence" is circumstantial at best.

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  92. Icefrog is a SELLOUT, thanks for exposing him! :)

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  93. I never played Dota. I play HoN. This "blog" is defamation of character towards IceFrog. Fact of Fiction?

    I am happy with HoN. LoL is a joke. From what I hear DoTA Allstars was limited by wc3 engine. DoTA 2 will have fan loyalty I am sure.

    Intellectual property is one thing, but if this game is copied over directly... which it sounds like, what about Blizzard? TOS / EULA.

    3. Ownership. All title, ownership, and intellectual property rights in and to Battle.net (including, but not limited to, any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, "applets" incorporated into Battle.net, transcripts of the chat rooms, member profile information, recordings of games played on Battle.net, and software) are owned by Blizzard Entertainment or its licensors. All rights are reserved. Battle.net is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions, and other laws. All rights are reserved. Battle.net may contain certain licensed materials, and Blizzard's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.

    7. Use of Your Content. Blizzard and/or its parent, subsidiaries or affiliates may gather, process, and use (and allow others to use) any and all information which you provide directly to Blizzard ("Content"), as well as information regarding the manner in which you use Battle.net. You hereby grant to Blizzard a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicenseable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise all intellectual property rights, in any media now known or not currently known, associated with your Content.


    I would like to play my game and not have its interpretation and implementation interrupted due to some sketchy guy who may or may not be greedy, has some creativity, and can balance numbers.

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  94. Exactly, both games were in development between 2006-2008 (engines date back earlier but Icefrog wasnt needed until later). Icefrog worked with S2 and Riot simultaneously during the time when both companies were creating heroes for their games, Icefrog was hired to help in the development on those in terms of helping with balance and skills, that sort of stuff. His contract ended a few months ago which is the time when he was actively looking for a new place, which is now Valve. To give you more proof, S2 cant port any heroes or any change that was made after the patch 6.60 (or something like that) meaning that any hero, any new skill or skill remake that was done after this patch, cannot be added because that is the time when the contract ended and the new contract between Icefrog and valve started so S2 cannot add anything that is 100% to the dota counterpart.

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  95. Look, people, regardless of who's telling the truth there's just one thing we need to keep in mind. This goes for Valve as well...

    ... Always bet on Duke.

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  96. Who cares if he worked for more than one company. If he knows about the genre, who gives a flying fuck.

    What we need is for certain members of the DotA community to stop whining about a missed opportunity to make money. This includes Riot Games and S2 Games as well... If you're afraid Valve is going to make it better, do something about YOUR game to improve it!! This is fucking America, get used to it!

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  97. I asked someone I know at Riot, and they said that Icefrog never worked at Riot in any capacity. The blog evidence about Icefrog and S2 does make sense, but who knows... However, the Riot link seems non-existent -- there's no culver city address there (where Riot is).

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  98. Replays or it didn't happen
    no seriously though, don't know where you get your fact but being anonymous is enough reason for me to think that all of the things coming out of your mouth is trash
    good thing im not anonymous
    oh wait

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  99. This article is embarrassing. What is going on at Valve? Do the people in the videogame industry not know how to run a company? Creating a blog to defame your own company and co-workers is the height of un-professionalism. This entire situation is incredibly bizarre.

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  100. Riveting tale chap,dare I Say that not a single fuck was given?

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  101. Dota has been-throughtout it's history- 95% of the time in Icefrog's sole hands.

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  102. alve employees tattletaling each other on the internet instead of contacting a supervisor when something isn't working the way it's supposed to. I think not. :-)

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  103. Of course this blog is a joke and such but... it's funny because the DotA community, including HoN and LoL is all about drama.

    Seriously, I'm hope you guys will grow up when Valve releases DotA 2.

    Try to make some drama on the Steam forums without getting banned. Good luck.

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  104. just in from twitter:
    "
    George Broussard
    Ex / current Valve employees tell me the IceFrog/DOTA blog post is all false. Good to hear. Now, where's Half-Life Ep3? :)
    2 minutes ago from Nambu
    "
    I believe in what he believes. Duke comes out after all.

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  105. http://truthepic.blogspot.com/2010/10/horrible-truth-about-cliff-bleszinski.html

    Moar anonymous truth seeking!

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  106. Why do people workship icefrog so much??

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  107. This is so obviously Pendragon. Sad. Sad and bitter.

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  108. Valve sucks cock... I pre-ordered Medal of honor and the goddam thing was NOt pre-loaded when I got home fro work yesterday!!!!! You fuckin' Valve weenies!!!! Learn to pre-load my shit while I am work... When I got home the fucking servers were to busy to down load shit... So buy some new fuckin' servers too you asswipes!

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  109. This article has been proven false. The one who wrote this is actually an employee from Riot Games. LoL is going to lose all of it's players because of the valve project.

    Here's the real read:

    http://ninjaspartans.blogspot.com/2009/05/league-of-legends-and-dota-controversy.html

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  110. Someone is mad...

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  111. @Atuschan -- How is it proven false? Is it all false? Is some of it false? Provide alternative explanations for what is being said then, the employee gives some factual details that you can confirm. You should be able to find an alternative explanation that gives your different conclusion. so what is your different conclusion?

    I just think that you are just pushing your stupid blog like you do in every thread on the internet.

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  112. I have peanut butter on my Dick, who wants some?

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  113. Fake blog. No citing, references or anything beyond broad conjecture and here say. It figures someone from the DoTA community would be as vindictive and mean to waste their time writing up tripe like this. You are sad.

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  114. Not sure what the fan boys are talking about. Its fully cited. He shows his work. If you can't be troubled to take the time to follow him showing his research, you have NO RIGHT to call it bullshit.

    Follow his POSTED RESEARCH and volia. Come on guys, this is a no brainer.

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  115. Shit I never know icefrog is such a moron. I gonna quit DotA now

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  116. I dunno. I don't know the guy, but he has always come off as a solid developer who knows what he's doing to me.

    Whereas Pendragon and Guinsoo really come off as immature and petulant. Just check out the Riot games redtracker(http://redtracker.runeterra.com/) and look at some of their posts. It's pretty sad.

    Now I don't have any facts to say yea or nay. All I know is I like Valve, I like DotA Allstars and what Icefrog has done with it, and I don't trust the guys at S2 or Guinsoo and Pendragon at Riot (most of the people at Riot I like).

    So my money is on funny business rather than Valve hiring an insufferable asshole and throwing money at him for no reason. Just doesn't seem likely.

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  117. This blog is bullshit. Valve aren't stupid and they don't just hire any schmuck. There's no proof whatsoever that this guy works for them.

    It's well documented how much butthurt this has been causing with HoN/LoL etc. Go figure.

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  118. PEOPLE! get icefrogs cock out of your throat and heres a tissue *hands a tissue* to clean off the semen from your eyes so you can see the truth

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  119. Un-professionalism indeed, and Icefrog basically perfected Dota-allstars, over 10 million players wide.

    You tell me why its got a huge fan base

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  120. Looks like someone just going to get some boycotting started to get flown at Valve

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  121. You want to bring a point across but end up sounding like a troll with lots of accusations and no real substantial evidence. I would be far more interested in this if you had less circumstantial stuff and more actual info that wasn't already publicly available (re: the name Abdul)

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  122. The real issue here is that DotA is a retarded spinoff for people who are bad at WC3, video games, and life in general. Check your facts people. Nothing good can come from dumbing down video games.

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  123. Wow, lot of hate went into this but I can't help but notice the amount of time as well. The myriad of details and heavy inside knowledge makes me suspect this is the real deal.

    Although, you have to consider, Guinsoo isn't even the lead game designer of League of Legends.

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  124. I remember when LoL and HoN were announced and how they were selling their versions of the Dota product. Icefrog on his blog actually congratulated them and mentioned that it was good that there would be more variety out in the community.

    Then when word comes out that Icefrog was hired by Valve that's when the shitstorm started happening.

    Icefrog turned Dota into what it is, Icefrog never trashed talked anyone else, Icefrog has worked hard consistently working with the community and constantly integrating their ideas.

    In truth, this whole letter sounds like a hoax to me, just doesn't sound like Valve or Icefrog. Sounds more like the LoL and HoN guys trying to start shit again.

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  125. "This article has been proven false. The one who wrote this is actually an employee from Riot Games. LoL is going to lose all of it's players because of the valve project.

    Here's the real read:

    http://ninjaspartans.blogspot.com/2009/05/league-of-legends-and-dota-controversy.html "

    "*Disclaimer: This is just a theory and not a proven fact."

    Fucking fail, get the fuck out scrub.

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  126. Hoax or no, you don't come off as anyone worth listening too- just some bitter soul more interested in taking potshots than bringing any particularly vital truths to light.

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  127. Why so many Icefrog's cocksucker

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  128. I was looking at it another way. The blog's not necessarily trying to chew Abdul out, but rather serve as a message to Valve from an employee who just hates the direction the company culture and values are taking.

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  129. IceFrog has always been an elusive one. Prob just a huge troll but if true it just sounds like he's just OCD/assburgers/whatever. Working for different competitors would be pretty shady though.

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  130. Whoever wrote that about IceFrog is an insecure prick with self-esteem issues trying to stir up unnecessary drama. If he was so problematic, spreading negativity like this isn't fixing anything. Just go to work, do whatever it is you do and keep your mouth shut.

    IceFrog should have complete reign on how the project is run because of how solid DOTA is, he's the only one qualified.

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  131. Icefrog stole every little bit of DOTA from www.thewarcenter.net and Eul, the guy who started this whole waste of time. For more details, contact any admin on www.thewarcenter.net, the site DOTA started on almost a decade ago. Most of the original members from that time still post there, incidentally.

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  132. "Any old-timer WC3 player could tell you that:
    1. DotA Allstars was not the first DotA
    2. DotA Allstars stole content from other DotA maps
    3. DotA Allstars was not created by Icefrog

    I do admire the work Icefrog has put into DotA since its development was handed off to him, but he is in no way its creator.
    Check your facts, Valve."

    DOTA Allstars was shit and imbalanced before IceFrog, you self-proclaimed "older-timer".

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  133. Well you've only confirmed what we've all known for 5(?) years - IceFrog, and his predecessor, Guinsoo, are little more than thieves and talentless hacks.

    They stole the original DOTA map and added onto it, calling it "allstars". In turn, the original DOTA map heavily borrowed its format from the original map of this type, Aeon of Strife in StarCraft 1.

    Guinsoo's work was very amateur, and it wasn't until laaaaate in the map's development, when the terrible, poorly balanced, frightfully low skill ceilinged map somehow managed to get a following and they started adding a few people who actually knew how to code triggers into the map.

    Terrible map, terrible thieves that developed it. The fact that it has spawned spinoff games is more or less more affirmation that people don't want quality games, they want easy casual crap that they can just ragequit out of the moment things don't go their way.

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  134. I live in Seattle, means that I'm pretty close to him.

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  135. The truth... is out there.

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  136. This was actually Hunter_ (from his jail cell presumably) pretending to be someone else (again) to create more drama. Discuss.

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  137. Trying to sort the truth out of this mess of opinions from Internet Experts and bullshit rumors is quite a headache. The most sensible thing I've heard so far is that it would be uncharacteristic of Valve to make a blunder like the one described in this post.

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  138. no one cares asshole.

    ReplyDelete
  139. So many people sticking up for this icefrog turd.

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  140. Can't we just play some video games

    Check out my blog, click on my name n stuff.

    ReplyDelete
  141. You cared enough to reply, dipshit

    ReplyDelete
  142. Icefrog not only didn't create dota, but he really didn't do much for it at all.

    All the good ideas came from the dota community.

    Also, LoL sucks and HoN rulz.

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  143. "Icefrog has built a skyscraper of a game out of Dota, but Guinsoo installed the basement." -- Well said. He took on the reigns when he could easily just gave it up and not let the game develop further until what it is today.

    "I hope future commenters are going to refrain from jumping on this blog and insulting the author and rather bring actual, hard facts to counter any claims that might be false." -- You know this is quite difficult when the blog author acts compulsively by posting such an article online, without ACTUALLY interviewing the persons involved, but merely pointing 'wikipedia' articles about them. Anyone can write 'wikipedia' articles, and I'll take anything online with a pinch of salt. Judging by the author's grudging aura here, I'd take a healthy dose of salt.

    So what if IceFrog isn't ethical or professional or refined as a programmer -- here's what that matters: He executed and he shipped. He didn't just blogged online and lamented on other people's thingymajiggys. Period.

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  144. It really takes balls to bash your company in an economy like this. Especially in the Seattle Area where jobs are not really prevalent right now. GL on unemployment troll.

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  145. truth hurt isn't it?

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  146. Who cares coz dota is shit anyways lawl

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  147. Man, this blog made my hand itchy. So itchy that I require to take my hand and guide it across your face in one quick motion.

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  148. Made a post about this on the Steam general forums with a link to this blog, as well as my experiences with icefrog (I was a mapper back in War3 so I do have some insight onto the issue).

    The post violated no forum guidelines. It was deleted about 5 minutes later, with no private message or note as to why it was deleted.

    Valve definitely has something to hide here.

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  149. @guy who got deleted on steam forums

    what did you post there?

    ReplyDelete
  150. Plz dont get 4chan involved in dis matter... we will disc cover the truth..

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  151. Can't post the entire thing in the comment box, so here's a link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3087050/frog.htm

    Sorry bout the lack of page breaks, I just renamed a .txt to .htm but you should get the gist.

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  152. Obviously hunter.

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  153. what is this? i don't even know what this is...but i do know you put a lot of time into this. get a life!

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  154. liar or not, as long as it's Dota 2 made by icefrog and valve, who the fuck cares?

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  155. Ok, I read your blog post a second time.

    This is what I got.

    1. You claim to be an employee at valve.
    2. You claim that your friend hates Icefrog.
    3. You claim that you know his name.
    4. You claim that IceFrog has worked for S2 before.
    5. You claim you know where he lives.

    So.. now what?

    That's just about all the fact I can conjure from your blog. What are you trying to prove?

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  156. 20/10 troll, gj
    Nice attempt to spoil valves image

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  157. Hello HoN/LoL Developer. I'm sorry that your inferior product will be rocked by DotA 2 but you need to stop being so fucking butthurt.

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  158. DotA is free. Dota 2 is not. Fuck paying for something that you can get for free that plays the same. Almost like L4D 1 and 2. Fuck Valve. I hope Blizzard takes back their intellectual property and gets rid of every DotA related thing anyway. Then u cunts r gonna cry.

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  159. Just to let you know it's fake and no point in saying who I am as you wouldn't believe me anyway.
    -JC

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  160. I played AoS in Starcraft, I played AoS in WC3 and then I moved on to DotA around 2002.

    5.84c was hugely popular (as were earlier versions) and the power and greatness of the game was already well established at that point. The game was amazing, and while it did have some unbalanced aspects (just as every version has had), the swelling of the community was already unstoppable and DotA would have been just as successful.

    6.01 and the next several versions were not considered to be better than 5.84c/d and the majority of players did not move to the 6.* series until around 6.10, in fact 6.x games were banned by several clans/leagues early on.

    Any one version of DotA has flaws, but the game thrived because subsequent versions would always try to improve the game.

    Icefrog developed and improved the game in many ways, but the brilliance and spirit of the game was already firmly established.

    Lot's of DotA players started playing 6.x came out, probably the community more than doubled. I'm sure most of these players want to think that DotA was nothing before them, but in fact the opposite is true... they were nothing before DotA.

    For what it's worth, Defense_of_the_Ancients_v.1.4.w3m is the earliest DotA map I have in my folder, and I was playing AoS long before that.

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  161. Correction: I moved on to DotA around 2003, 2002 was a typo.

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  162. I think you simply have too much free time. Don't make dumb accusations without any proof. And even if this was true, it would have no effect on the quality of the game.

    Abdul Ismail stated in this myspace account you directed us to,
    "After completing a consulting contract for the European Space Agency, I shifted my attention and now work as a Space Sector Networker, Facilitator and Broker and effectively assist developing nations to obtain space technology. I also conduct my own private research on advanced space propulsion systems".

    This sounds to me, very different to the life of a game developer.

    Best of luck to you in future trolling

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  163. Conspiracy Theory up the ass*hole. If the poster was indeed from Valve, he'd post his real name, and stop cowering behind the internet.

    Is this blog is populated by HoN babies/developers? that are afraid of DoTa2, It's going to SLAUGHTER HoN outright. Valve has the money, technology, and talent to slaughter you clowns. That's all there is to it.

    Maybe I should ask you about these "TRADE SECRETS" that he had access too LOL. DO YOU GUYS REALLY THINK ONE OF THE BEST PC DEVELOPERS, WHO HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING GAMES 10X LONGER THAN YOU, NEED ANY TRADE SECRETS FROM NOBODY START UPS? IT'S A SIMPLE GAME TO MAKE, THEY DON'T NEED ANY "TRADE SECRETS" EVEN IF YOU HAD ANY ROFL!

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  164. He'd post his name so he could get fired?

    You're the moron.

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  165. what's with the pink hummingbird background

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  166. I'm beginning to suspect this is an odd form of viral marketing. The day DotA 2 is announced, kick up drama, let it get passed around via links on news and gaming sites to people who neither know nor care who the crap Icefrog is (like me) and then let their curiosity do the rest.

    Guess it worked on me. I wasn't especially into DotA but I went and checked the Game Informer article and now I'm looking forward to this offering. Thanks, IceFrogTruth!

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  167. I'm really not surprised that icefrog isn't a very valuable employee. Anyone who isn't 12 years old knows that DotA is just another AoS clone that happened to take off because eventually people got tired of playing 6000 different rigged maps and once it had a little popularity it skyrocketed. Honestly if ANY of the popular sc:bw or wc3 maps had that much time devoted to a single edition of them then they would be so much better than DotA Allstars it's not even funny.

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  168. For people who are too lazy/stupid to check whether this guy's lying or not:

    http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?oldest=1&emp_or_occ=Marc+DeForest&type=emp&search=Search

    http://www.mylife.com/c-5708149869

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S2_Games

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Corporation

    Current Age: 27
    5 years ago: 22 -> just out of college, 2005
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_Ancients

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  169. For people who are wondering whether IceFrog worked for Riot: no, he did not.

    What happened was, he tried to sell DotA to Riot while requesting full creative control and a place in the Board of Directors (also very high salary). He got rejected and laughed out of the room. (Source: League of Legends forum)

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  170. Btw, Dota has been amazing ever since v5.84c, that version was so stable and sexy that even months after IceFrog started making his own versions of dota, ppl STILL played it even though it was over a year old. In all seriousness though, this is gonna be a huge seller and I think Icefrog has contributed a lot to the gameplay of DotA even if he is a terrible developer for stand-alone games.

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  171. thanks for free publicity and article good sir

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  172. None of this mean anything to the consumer. If valve puts out a great game that plays like DotA with a completely renovated system, it will sell. I could care less what happens behind the scenes, as long as I get an amazing game out of the deal.

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  173. The only think I really know about Valve is that it made Portal.

    Whether this blog post is true or slander.
    Whether IceFrog is terrible to work with or not.
    Whether Valve higher-ups are protecting a douche bag or a project leader.
    Whether this blog post is largely unknown, well-known, or insanely popular.

    We can be sure of one thing.

    Valve wont say a peep about this.

    If Valve is different from any other generic gaming company, they'd have people who aren't "too big" to talk to the "little guys."

    The logical place to address this issue would be to make an official Valve account on Google or something, and post a comment on this blog. "Oh but then Google can edit our post and--" Then call out Google for trying to ruin you: "Google Editing Our Official Posts." That'd be a fun headline to see.

    But no. I don't think they are different. I don't think they see the logic in being open about things like this.


    Anyone who thinks this blog post is about anything but Valve is missing the point. Yeah it calls out IceFrog, but only because he's messing up shit at Valve.

    ReplyDelete
  174. If you are an employee at Valve then where the fuck is Episode 3? Why are you making a blog when you can be making Episode 3?

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  175. Who cares.

    Dota is a gr8 game to play and tats all i need to know abt it.

    Who cares abt all these politiks and stuff.

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  176. Surprising how so much BS and speculation about Icefrog supposedly "copying" Guinsoo's work with allstarts and about what he allegedly did behind the backs of everyone moves so many people and seems to be taken as fact when it is pure drama and speculation. Yet the fact that everyone's most precious game franchises Starcraft and Warcraft were stolen from Warhammer is unspoken, and that is fact.

    V

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  177. Good use of colour, make the reader madder or into a more negative mood as he scolls down by changing the mood. Well played Sir.

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  178. Icefrog IS dota, noobs. LoL is a kiddie version of it and HoN is just a ripoff by the true maker of the game.

    Guinsoo just wants to steal credit for Icefrog's game, and you noobs believe him. ROFL, IS THAT YOU WRITING THIS BLOG GUINSOO?

    You noobs are just mad because you suck so badly at denying that you took it out of LoL and want to act like its a bad mechanic but it was put there for a reason and only the skilled players do it right! NOOOOOOOOBS

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  179. IT'S FROM THE INTERNET, IT MUST BE TRUE!!!!!!

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  180. Tell us about Episode 3 instead.

    ReplyDelete