Thursday, October 14, 2010

I will try to answer some of the questions in the comments. 

It's more likely that Valve knew the entire deal from the start and just a bunch of money grabbing assholes. Whether the people in the office knew is another matter, but I'd be suprised if the higher ups of a multi-million dollar company were so stupid.
I cannot say for sure, but I CAN say that none of the middle management or lower knew ANYTHING about his involvement with other game companies. From the looks on everyone's face after the deal, I would say no one at the company knew at all. Apparently Abdul had S2 Games sign an agreement barring them from disclosing his involvement with HON. I can only assume that it was so he could work with us without us raising any eyebrows.

What is the main point of this?

DotA fans won't really give a shit if IceFrog indeed lied about his past involvement with S2 or not.

They care about the game and DotA having more than 10 millions players is a proof that IceFrog is doing a really good job at it.

The only thing that would scare me is something like " The truth about dota 2 : it will suck " but that's obviously never gonna happen.
If you enjoy DOTA you will enjoy DOTA 2. It will be a very good game, because DOTA is a good game. This blog is not about putting DOTA 2 down, nor is it about putting down the hard work of the development team. This blog is about letting people understand the truth behind the people at the helm of the project, and how they are trying to steer Valve away from its roots as a gamer-first company.

All this info is really old. Anyone could use google to find it. So I really doubt this is from a Valve employee. Why would they choose to post that Icefrog is a douche now, rather than posting this info when it became available this past summer?

Prove you're really a Valve employee by getting today's newspaper and take a picture of it near a valve landmark
The reason I don't give away my identity should be pretty obvious. I don't want to lose my job, and I don't want my friends to lose theirs either. I am making a huge sacrifice by doing all of this, and if you don't care about it, then don't bother commenting. I don't know how much of this information is new to everyone. To us at Valve, almost all of it is new, because Abdul lied to us and we all believed it. If this is already common information, that disheartens me even more that so many people simply do not care for the egregious moral atrocities that have been performed during the development of this game.

I dont really care if IceFrog is doing things that are frowned upon (even though they dont really matter and they affect you positively); What I would care about, and what would anger me is if Valve attempted to hijack DoTA 2.0 from IceFrog. I think it's great that he has control over the project, he took DoTA and made it something amazing without much to work with from the start. Why shouldnt he be trusted? You may respond with "Because he's been lying," but I don't think the end is governed by the means. If IceFrog thinks something should stay secret then it probably should, if IceFrog wants to add something to the game without telling anyone then let him do so; There are millions of people that would stand up for IceFrog in an instant, do you even know what he created?
One thing that we are not doing is taking control. Believe me when we say that we have tried to give input. Abdul is such a domineering personality, that when he is given full creative control, he simply will not listen to outside input.
If he is hard to work with, then speak to Senior Management or even Human Resources. Get it done and it'll eventually lead him to speak with someone above him. If many people are dissatisfied with him, then it should be no problem to accomplish this.
I do not work with him. I simply have many co-workers who do. As far as I understand, he has been complained about a lot, but management refuses to do anything to him because they see too much gold in DOTA.

It's kinda funny the different responses we're seeing today between IceFrogTruth and EALouse "tell all" blogs. In the case of EA, unfounded accusations are treated as gold and everyone there is going "HELLS YEAH" and treating it like gospel truth

Whereas here, accusations are made with some proof to back them up, and folks are more likely to tell this guy to fuck off and defend Valve.

EA is generally hated and gamers look for any excuse to fuel that hatred, regardless of anything.

Valve is generally loved and gamers look for any excuse to fuel that love, regardless of anything.

Kind of amusing really.
Valve for the most part is a good company. We are all good people, and we care about the games we make. It's because we care that I am posting this right now. This blog actually has nothing to do with EA Louse. It's a complete coincidence that we both managed to do this at similar times. I wish him plenty of luck in his future endeavors, because the game industry is a lot more difficult than your typical gamer would think.

It does NOT add up.

League of Ledends:

"It was first announced on October 7, 2008 and released on October 27, 2009.[6] The game was in a closed beta from April 10, 2009 to October 22, 2009.[7] It then transitioned to open beta until release.[8]"


According to S2 staff member "Idejder," Heroes of Newerth has been in development for "34 months, but the first 13 were spent on engine development. The entirety of assets, including maps, items, heroes, and art were made in 21 months."

That still leaves Icefrog with 2 years of development with DotA only. This so called "evidence" is circumstantial at best.
The LOL entry does not say when they began engine work, while the HON entry does. I do not know exactly when Abdul started working with S2 Games, but I do know that he began working with us around Spring of last year. I do know that he worked on DOTA and HON at the same time, because the campaign fund site confirms he was employed by S2 Games in 2008.

I never played Dota. I play HoN. This "blog" is defamation of character towards IceFrog. Fact of Fiction?

I am happy with HoN. LoL is a joke. From what I hear DoTA Allstars was limited by wc3 engine. DoTA 2 will have fan loyalty I am sure.

Intellectual property is one thing, but if this game is copied over directly... which it sounds like, what about Blizzard? TOS / EULA.

I am not a lawyer, so I do not know much about the legal underpinnings behind this game. I do know that we are using the name DOTA and not DotA or Defense of the Ancients because of any potential legal trouble though.

Exactly, both games were in development between 2006-2008 (engines date back earlier but Icefrog wasnt needed until later). Icefrog worked with S2 and Riot simultaneously during the time when both companies were creating heroes for their games, Icefrog was hired to help in the development on those in terms of helping with balance and skills, that sort of stuff. His contract ended a few months ago which is the time when he was actively looking for a new place, which is now Valve. To give you more proof, S2 cant port any heroes or any change that was made after the patch 6.60 (or something like that) meaning that any hero, any new skill or skill remake that was done after this patch, cannot be added because that is the time when the contract ended and the new contract between Icefrog and valve started so S2 cannot add anything that is 100% to the dota counterpart.

You are right here. Legal sent S2 Games an infringement notice forbidding them from using any DOTA content after Abdul was hired.
This article is embarrassing. What is going on at Valve? Do the people in the videogame industry not know how to run a company? Creating a blog to defame your own company and co-workers is the height of un-professionalism. This entire situation is incredibly bizarre. 
This is called "whistle-blowing". In the corporate world, there are laws to protect whistle-blowers. In the game industry, whistle-blowing will just be considered a security leak and will get you fired. I am a Valve employee, but before that, I am a gamer. I was drawn to working for this company for the same reasons everyone is drawn to its games. I simply have the privilege of getting the full picture, and feel it is my duty to share it.

I'm an engineer at a company other than Riot, Valve and S2, but I have acquaintances at S2, Riot and Valve because I drink heavily at conventions and I am a hardcore DOTA, LoL (1375 ranked rating bitches, sup!) and HON player (1720 PSR).

This is consistent with what I've heard about him.

I do not think he worked for Riot, just pitched DOTA to them at a meeting long ago, but they could not make a deal. With the apparent surge in LoL popularity, it sounds like they made the right call.

I did hear that he worked at S2 for a bit, but they had an amicable split after a year or two. I was unable to find out what the problems were, but maybe they are the same as the ones being listed here. Why else would S2 do that, they'd otherwise have everything to gain?

I also heard he got politely sent home from the Blizzard campus by a senior manager when he showed up there with an AGENT to pitch DOTA. Who the hell shows up with an AGENT to a job interview in the game industry? I didn't even know that individual people had agents in games. That's somewhere between pretentious and clueless. We aren't Hollywood.
The word going around is that he was denied at Riot Games, got a boatload from S2 Games, and now is reaping the profits from us. Whatever he is being paid, it is ridiculous, because the game is literally identical to DOTA. Everything from voices to art is being transferred over, because he demanded it. This game could have been made without his involvement at all.

I am only trying to get the word out guys. Do not think of me as the bad guy.

EDIT: Clarification to us "porting over" Blizzard's content. I am not saying that we are directly taking their assets, but rather, that Abdul demanded that everything look and sound as close as possible to the Blizzard assets without causing copyright issues.


  1. Good luck with this, man. The only thing worse than a domineering boss who won't take your ideas is the crowd of jeering fanboys who believe you're personally attacking them by publishing this blog. Don't take any guff from those swine!

  2. What's up with the dig against Erik Johnson at the end of the last article though?

  3. I have just been upset at management in this company in general. That was uncalled for though, you are right.

  4. What doesn't add up for me is that Icefrog is supposedly anti-social and headstrong, and that leads to his being a terrible collaborator. But if you look at his developer's blog at, he accounts for his work, including that with Valve, in mannerly, socially acceptable terms.

    He acknowledges that what appealed to him about Valve was the freedom to be left on his own in terms of taking DOTA2 where he wanted it to go. I don't see how he's a problem in that sense: he was hired with that understanding.

    It could be you are a Valve employee, but if you are, my guess is you're stating your opinion as representing that of the majority when it is nothing of the sort.

  5. I just want to know why the exact same game has been remade 4 times now.

  6. Man, it smells like bullshit in here. Someone buy an air refreshner.

    50 bucks says this guy's from Riot Games or some shit like that.

    Most of the huge DotA fans don't seem to share your opinion, and some of them even know IceFrog quite well.

    Sounds and art being reused? Starting to smell like bullshit again, cause the GI interview clearly states the game will have a completely new look and completely new voice work.

    Move along, people. Even if this blog were real, it doesn't matter a bit. As it stands now, all this troll has is some name and a pretty long story. No one's taking down Valve, DotA 2 will be great, and that's it.

  7. Wouldn't completely porting assets from Warcraft invite legal trouble? Unless Valve is working to do a licensing deal with Blizzard, which is plausible but unlikely.


    He is a worthless piece of shit thief and I hope he dies of cancer very soon.

    Keep this blog going: we need to learn the truth :)b

  9. Go away pendragon

    " Everything from voices to art is being transferred over, because he demanded it."

    uh huh I'm sure sand king will continue to use voiceclips taken from the frozen throne just because icefrog waved a magic wand that he's hypnotized everyone at valve with (except you of course)

  10. The fact you just left some one sentence dig at someone with an established track record in the industry at the end of your first post screams "butthurt employee gets pissed he got fired and is now trying to negatively affect the project he was working on". Obviously nobody can know for sure since you're not willing to share your identity, but those last few sentences pretty much ruined your credibility in my eyes.

  11. Valve basically helped Ice Frog steal DOTA as his own game and helped him sell it off...

    nice job gabe...


    Really, what is the big problem here?

  13. Am I still the only one who doesn't give a damn?

  14. I don't even know why IceFrog is praised, the new genre seen from dota, hon, and LoL is a stumbling genre at best. Dota while fun, is not even remotely close to being balanced. All and all IceFrog is a friggen kid in his basement, if he makes the a game unbalanced he gets some angry nerds making posts, actual companies take more of a serious approach to balancing because if the game is unbalanced and unfun they lose people and ergo lose money.

    The only real motivation Icefrog had for balancing Dota was "This would be a neat idea"

    I'm happy to see this because it showed that IceFrog all and all is still just an angry nerd with lack of social skills in his basement.

    To quote Aaron Sorkin:

    "These aren't the cuddly nerds we made movies about in the '80s. They're very angry that the cheerleader still wants to go out with the quarterback instead of the men (boys) who are running the universe right now. "

    Your stereotypical nerds are ASSHOLES, people don't get that yet.

    I'm sad to hear this about Valve, I wish they could rip DOTA away from IceFrog so a real developer could get behind the game.

  15. dota has a lot of shitty heroes and the balance is shit... dota 2 will blow if icefrog is in charge. lolz ^_^

  16. Row Row, fight tha powah!

  17. I like how IF is as anonymous as a terrorist, then turns out HE HAS A TERRORIST name

    seriously, what a faggot. 5/5 for dis blog

  18. "Valve for the most part is a good company. We are all good people, and we care about the games we make. It's because we care that I am posting this right now."

    Sure, *you* care, but if the company as a whole is like you say it is, then they'd make an official account or something and address this directly at the source.

    About identity, you can prove you work at Valve without revealing any details that would incriminate you.

    "Am I still the only one who doesn't give a damn?"

    If you don't care then get out of this thread, sheep.

  19. "Clarification to us "porting over" Blizzard's content. I am not saying that we are directly taking their assets, but rather, that Abdul demanded that everything look and sound as close as possible to the Blizzard assets without causing copyright issues."

    There is everything wrong with how Abdul wants to make this game, this isn't what Valve would do. What he wants to do is make a copy of something that he is simply personally attached to. This would have been fine if he was making a game by himself, but taking a whole company to execute his personal fantasy of upgrading his "magnum opus" is just despicable. What I don't understand is how he managed to actually get the green light for this project, is this some kind of an experiment to let a man run with his own vision, regardless of how selfish or shortsighted it is?
    It was stated that the gameplay elements will be largely unchanged, I find this ridiculous. Hasn't HoN already done that? LoL showed us that the DotA concept can be improved and its great fun, but I find that their business model (while it works) and the level up/rune system isn't very well suited for DotA style games. So now after we've seen what not to do, it should be quite obvious what needs to be done with DotA2 to make it great.

  20. HoN failed at being the next DotA, so it can't be compared. Most people wanted DotA, and the mind behind it. Not a look-alike and half-ass ports with features that were promised at release still not being delivered.

    Anyways, did no one else notice this contradictory statement?

    ***One thing that we are not doing is taking control. Believe me when we say that we have tried to give input.****

    He refers to 'we' when suggesting he is putting input. And then...

    ****I do not work with him. I simply have many co-workers who do.****

    Anyways... I have a hard time accepting facts when they come from someone else in the first place, much less from a 'anonymous blogger friend of some random co-worker friend'...

  21. I for one believe everything said in this blog. As a former acquaintance of Icefrog (as a well-known dota player- like people have mentioned, he has a huge network of them that he talks to and gathers ideas from before he injects them into the game as his own), I will say that even those that "know Icefrog" don't really know him. He'll give off what he wants to give off, take what he can get, not credit the input, and retain his anonymity. The absolute worst thing he does is that he never ever wants open discussion; he'd rather speak with people one on one, get each person's ideas, keep them isolated within himself, and then present an idea as his own. The alternative would be to let the people whose ideas he's utilizing speak TOGETHER in an open environment to synthesize an optimal solution.. But alas, he is an expert at using people. Point of this post is to point out that people who claim they "know" Icefrog or know someone who "knows" Icefrog have a horribly skewed perception of what those relationships consist of.

  22. DOTA 2 is going to suck for one reason:

    Ice Frog

    cant balance for shit and SUCKS at making new heroes... always so OP

    fuck dis shit, valve retarded

  23. ......."that froggy is so evil...CEO's made him our boss.....aannnd I'am still a janitor....mommy!"......LMAO

    You're either a troll, or just a pathetic rat

  24. What bothers me the most, out of all of this, is that IceFrog is still demanding anonymity. Dude, you're a project lead at a major game developer. Anonymity is for protection at best, otherwise it's just to avoid accountability for your actions. The actions stated in this blog only prove that point. It's one thing to be a recluse, it's another thing to attempt to hide literally everything from everyone, including your own employer.

    I've never played DotA, HoN, or LoL. Entering the genre with DotA 2 seemed like a good idea in my head at first (especially since it's a mirror image of the original anyway), but this kind of shit would just bother me as I'm playing the game, making me even worse than I probably will be when it's released. Maybe this will be the first Source game that I don't intend to own? Who knows...

  25. Icefrog is SHIT. It's true

  26. the only reason icefrog stays anonymous is because he doesnt want to be exposed as the hack he is XD

    this blog exists to reveal his lies

  27. You are Gabe Newell in disguise, right?

  28. This isn't whistle-blowing. This is complaining about a coworker. If it were whistle-blowing, you would be talking about VALVE, not Abdul.

    Can you explain, in one sentence, specifically what it is that Valve has done that is unethical?

  29. @Anonymous --

    I don't work at Valve, but I know some about it.

    Valve is an almost flat organization. Junior staff get a lot of latitude, and senior staff get more. Everyone makes decisions and contributes to the creativity and excellence of the game they are working on. Valve is not hierarchical, it is not about a big dude at the top pushing details down. Blizzard on the other hand, does have hierarchy, but STILL depends on lots of associate-level people doing great work and exercising great judgment, but valve is exceptional in this regard.

    It sounds like the blogger is posting this because he feels like Icefrog is an threat to the workplace culture that he loves because he feels that Icefrog's leadership is very command and control and micro-management oriented. I can see why if that was the case, it would be in conflict with Valve's cultural values, and why people who love Valve would not want to work in that style.

  30. As for what VALVE has done that is unethical, I personally find the co-opting of a brand and all the development done upon it by 3 different leads and an involved community to be pretty damn questionable legally and way over the line ethically. Eul and Guinsoo have an enormous amount to do with the developement, direction and success of DotA and yet Icefrog acts as if he somehow has the (legal and moral) right to use that work as if it were his own.

    As well VALVE is using the DotA trademark actively in advertising despite (to the best of my knowledge) not legally having the right to do so. Pendragon filed a motion of opposition to VALVE's trademark application on behalf of himself, dota-allstars, and the community in general. Currently the issue has not been resolved making the use of the disputed trademark questionable.

    Also the fact that Icefrog has been shopping around a dota sequel and asking for absurd amounts of money and unheard of levels of control is common knowledge in the industry. Riot and Blizzard literally laughed him out the door, S2 secretly paid him to not file legal challenges to their use of his new material to much community speculation), and now VALVE has let him in and hopefully this isn't going to be the game that ruins their reputation.

  31. I honestly hope this isn't true for the sake of Valve, but if it is then I wish you good luck with exposing the truth.

  32. Everything you've posted about Icefrog's personality and work habits is just hearsay.

    Icefrog has a vision, if anything his co-workers are jealous of his status, want to help be part of his fame and get shot down by trying to "help" him with ideas.

  33. The DotA fanboys commenting on this blog are as clueless as you would expect them to be. It's hilarious.

    Also to the blog writer here, keep up the good work.

  34. Look at all these butthurt VALVe and DOTA fanboys.

    Christ, you guys are really religious about this shit aren't you?

    You think that just because a company makes really great games that they aren't out to make a profit in any way that they can just like every other company in the world?

    Wake up.

  35. "Legal sent S2 Games an infringement notice forbidding them from using any DOTA content after Abdul was hired."

    Then why was Dota's patches ported straight over for a while after this hiring? For example, 6.63 and 6.64 was ported on every hero that HoN had at the time. And let us not forget the new item, Blood Chalice, which came to Dota as Soul Ring on March 24, 2010. Which makes it Spring this year, as opposed to the claimed Spring last year.

  36. 1. icefrog STEALS dota, claims it as his own

    2. Valve is stupid enough to believe icefrog, pays him a huge sum of money for it

    3. valve is now stuck trying to make dota 2, without realizing icefrog is a HACK and doesnt know shit about game design.

    4. DOTA 2 fails because its a giant turd of a game

  37. ^ Lol'd.

    1. Go take a look at what the DotA community looked like at the end of Guinsoo's time.

    2. Go take a look at the the DotA community looks like now.

    3. Come back here and post what you find.

  38. I am Alcoholic...*deleted
    I am Drug Addict...*deleted
    I am Sex Maniac...*deleted
    I am DoTA hater...*deleted
    I am Icefrog hater...*deleted

    I am an employee of Valve...*Posted lol!
    This blog is a shit! I bet when dota 2 comes out, you DoTA/Icefrog haters are the first one dying to get the game first! hahahahaha

  39. I don't have all the facts; feel free to correct me.

    Believe it or not, Icefrog is the main reason why DotA has gotten to where it is. Eul and Guinsoo provided the building blocks for the genre, but Icefrog added pretty much every hero and item you see in the game. Icefrog has every right to monetize on that base. If you take out the heroes and items, what is left is the genre itself, which every other MOBA developer is using. So you can't really tell me Icefrog is stealing DotA. You could argue that they're keeping the acronym DOTA for themselves, but that hardly matters. When you've got someone who calls their game LoL it hardly seems real to talk about semantics. Players don't want another HoN anyway, they want the sequel.

    Did Icefrog actually deny working with S2 and Riot, or did he simply not mention working with them? Either way I'm unsure of the relevance of this information. It's not like he's a double agent or something.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by making this blog. Are you trying to kick Icefrog out of Valve? Why? Cause he's hard to work with? You'll learn to work with him, or he'll learn to work with you. Y'know, he has been developing DotA alone for quite a few years. Maybe he's not accustomed to working in a team. Are you afraid that DotA 2 will not turn out good? Since you're a gamer first, that's the thing that matters most. He may know more about what to do with this project than you or your friends do. Let the man do what he does best. Valve isn't an expert on MOBA games. Icefrce engine. Exactly what input can you offer at this stage?

    Also, giving away personal information on a co-worker you don't fancy is a really dick move. Deciding to be anonymous should be one's decision alone. How'd you feel if someone revealed your identity to Valve right now?
    Much like moot, I'd rather be anonymous than have a rabid fanbase know my identity. Of course, this whole blog may be just some kind of personal army atempt. Either way, you're not a good person.

  40. I like how everyone covers for icefrogs THIEVING by saying "it probably doesnt matter" or "well.. I dont care."

    lol he's a hack, and dota 2 will be shit as long as this faggot is involved

    hoping icefrog gets death threats cause of the truth now and is killed because of it... that would OWN loln

  41. ^ I like how Valve filing for trademarks on the DotA name translates to Icefrog stealing DotA.

  42. ^Wishing for someone's death is does not make you cool.

    Sure, IceFrog "stole" DotA to make a game of it. So what? No, seriously, so what? It's not like DotA will blow up in a nuclear blast; you can still play it. And the majority of the player base WANTS him to do this. If the community were some sort of company (as most haters here seem to believe), the vote result would be giving the copyright to IceFrog. I have contributed with several suggestions through the years. Do I mind if IceFrog uses them? No, I don't.

    And seriously, why the hell can't he do this? Do people want credit for their suggestions or what? What is this all about? Is it about someone making money from "your" idea?

    I played DotA "back in the day". Guinsoo couldn't balance for shit compared to IceFrog.

    Besides, I love how all haters paints Guinsoo as some sort of saint when he basically STOLE it from Eul, lol. Guinsoo gave it up in favour of IceFrog.

  43. ^^^ trap sprung, icefrong fanboy spotted

  44. "hoping icefrog gets death threats cause of the truth now and is killed because of it..."

    wow...just wow. You sir, are more than likely a hundred times worse a person than Icefrog will ever be.

  45. I don't thing it counts as "thieving". Eul and Guinsoo has abandoned the project at the end of 5.xx series. Icefrog added a lot since then. You could say he just copied the suggestions from the fans and claimed that the ideas belongs to him. I don't know about that. But there were a gap. Valve probably wanted to do something like dota (as they used the ever-growing popularity of the zombie theme with L4D) or wanted to use the name (like they did with portal) that has already created millions of fans. And they hired icefrog to help them. You hate it or not he worked on Dota, he improved the game and he is one the man that helped the name to reach millions of players.

    Valve acquired the Dota name rights and moved on while s2 or riot failed to that for some reason. I don't think valve did a wrong thing with copying the looks of the characters and etc. They wouldn't have done that if there was a legal problem. They know what they are doing I believe.

    And of course owner and the others must hate him cause he is now working with Valve earning more money than they are. Cause they are coming from a gaming community, they tend to jealous each other :).

    I think valve doesn't care about what icefrog did before them. He could have tried earning money out from dota name like others did. Nothing wrong with that as guinsoo and eul stopped working on dota and the others went with s2 and riot. He had dota, and now Valve had dota and icefrog...

  46. He may be an "icefrog fanboy" but it's the truth. A true sequel is what us dedicated dota players truly want :-\

    I played dota for 7 years and I know I speak for many many players when I say we do not want innovation just for innovations sake. HoN and Lol could not match up to the depth of DotA IMO, they are crude, uninspired and plagued with balance issues just as DotA was in the hands of Eul and then Guinsoo back before v5.84b. Mr anonymous blogger, we truly feel that Icefrog knows what the community wants and trust him to make a great sequel.

    I can understand however, that he may be a jerk to work with, he may be undermining the corporate culture that brought you to Valve in the first place. I do sympathise... working with such people should not be tolerated :-\

  47. and the other idea is all of this blog thing is just a viral. Because Valve DID this before.

    When I was visiting before Left 4 Dead came out, a standard forum member was posting all the news about the game. He claimed he is just a fan. He was like "ohh I can't wait to play this game, it looks awesome".

    When the game came out he bought the game as a gift for many gamers including me. He spent like 400-600$ for the users and claimed that he just want to help to community.

    So Valve does this, they are constantly trying/testing new business plans and making statistics about marketing.

    So this could be one of them.

  48. there are many things in dota that players want but cannot be done because of restrictions in the wc3 engine. sequel could solve this. he may be hard to work with, but thats people for you.

  49. latest news says Riot games say that at no time did Abdul or Icefrog ever work for them. Also Valve insiders claim this is all false...

    I smell a rat :p

  50. 5 bucks says no new heroes come out for DOTA 2 at all

    icefrog is lazy now that he's rich... lol DOTA 1 gonna die

  51. "This isn't whistle-blowing. This is complaining about a coworker. If it were whistle-blowing, you would be talking about VALVE, not Abdul.

    Can you explain, in one sentence, specifically what it is that Valve has done that is unethical?"

    Hire IceFrog.

    Oh, was that too short?

    Hire IceFrog and think the value (money) he brings with DotA 2 is worth more than anything.

    Maybe they don't realize the deeper untapped potential of being an awesome company?

    It only makes sense. After a certain point you need to hire a more diverse group of people, and they sit in their boardrooms getting convincing you to do things like any other useless business in the world.

    If they can't fire someone, /anyone/, because they are only looking at the profit they'll get from a loyal fanboy army, and not the detrimental affects it will have to THEIR WHOLE COMPANY, then yeah, they've become a generic business.

    But why listen to some random poster on a blog? has been in the biz for years, and hasn't ever used this strategy (to know if it even works or not), and I am but a simple porcupine. Why trust me over him? Because that is how it is. Why would someone that experienced just post about this stuff instead of selling it to us like all the other garden variety experts do? Who /could/ he possibily be to have any idea what he's talking about?

    Nah. Stay the course. Of the hundreds of projects out there that we could profit off of, we want DotA 2 by IceFrog. I mean, how bad would it be for us to announce it and then retract the announcement???? All the fans would surely hate us!

  52. i think it's somebody from Riot posting this because they know most of the people will go after IceFrog to play new DotA 2 - including me :)

  53. LOL if icefrog is abdul whatever the fuck and bombs a building valve is gonna be FUUUUUCKEDDD

    lol prob not but who knows... keep whistlening. Blogs pwnt

  54. All this over DOTA? The game was crap, all versions. If you're gonna copy an Aeon of Strife (the true 1st of the genre) at least copy a good one (aka has a remote semblance of balance) like TOB. DOTA was there to give bad WC3 players a chance at feeling OP (item X + hero Y = OMG GOD MODE LOLOLOLOL!!!!).


    Kill this blog now please.

  56. I also hear he's really fat

  57. Valve representatives didn't mince words, saying only, "It's fake,"

    Funniest part of the joystiq article. How does Valve know that is fake? Did they get everyone together in a room, ask the poster to raise his hand, and trust that he'd be stupid enough to raise his hand? Lolbbq, this is some funny shit.

  58. It's called "whistle-blowing" when criminal activity is involved. The poster has yet to make clear what criminal activity possibly has taken place. It makes the entire diatribe suspect.

  59. Of course valve is going to say "ITS FAKE" they dont want people to find out that they hired a FRAUD, so now they are doing damage control

    thankfully this blog is out so the truth can be heard...

  60. I keep waiting for the ZOMG ICEFROG IS A FRAUD AND A THEIF crowd to come up with an explanation for how DotA has thrived more under him than under any previous project leads.

  61. Garena

    any more questions?

  62. Well, I'm a skeptic. I like Valve games but wouldn't call myself a "fanboy." I'm still a little miffed about slow DLC release schedules for L4D and L4D2.

    Both sides of the argument are being a little silly. As people without in-depth insider knowledge of Valve we can't know if this guy is telling the truth or is just another troll.

    I guarantee you if I made an anonymous blog and claimed to be a developer for so and so I could get people to believe me because I'm only reinforcing their own beliefs about the company or the game.

    We'll likely never know for sure if this blog is real unless the guy gets arrested for libel. The stupidity of the arguments here baffle me though, people seem to believe they know 100% what's going on and belittle the other side that's arguing.

    I'd wager that no one in the comments section has any knowledge about the situation at all besides hearsay or what they've read. The whole argument is like Atheism vs. Theism, nobody really knows for sure but they'll still fight over it because they believe it.

    Just relax, bookmark this blog and come back as DoTA 2 gets closer to release to see if anything was accurate.

  63. Call me stupid, but I don't get it. Why is announcing that IceFrog has previously worked with a different game company, one making a similar game, such a big whistle-blowing moment? Unless the whistle blow is meant to be "IceFrog is a lying dick!" which I don't see as a big exposed secret either.

  64. IceFRAUD

    DOTA is not his but he stole it...

  65. Good luck with Fart Cops!


    Things get serious...

  67. I don't see what the big deal is other than that Icefrog might be a jerk. People have been talking about Icefrog helping S2 for a while I thought. I mean, at the least they own license/rights to some hero designs and gameplay elements. Why would it be a surprise that it goes farther than that?

  68. Anyone who believes this shit must be a moron. So help yourself. Don't be a moron.

    Oh btw, I lol'd at this:

  69. Wow, he reminds me of JP from Grandmas Boy

  70. DotA sucks. It's like a poor man's WoW.

    Stick to FPS gaming, VALVe. You don't need to tap into this shitty RTS crap.

  71. Some truly stupid people here.

    There has ALREADY been a lawsuit filed against valve trying to prohibit their use of the DOTA name. Long before this article was published.

    Regardless of the number of heroes IceFrog created and/or did not create, use of the Defense of the Ancients (DOTA) name is ridiculous.

    Valve is only using the DOTA name to make money - no questions asked. A very large percentage of the money they paid IceFrog was likely just to use the DOTA name, which he didnt even create.

    Besides it's already been said....DOTA clones have been done already. It's shameful to me that Valve is attempting a direct port, and it should be shameful to Valve's employees as well.


    Regardless of all the behind the scenes crap that's going on, I've lost a LOT of respect for Valve anyways -- they're a company that's known for innovation, player-feedback etc. Obviously all of this has been a guise.

    Valve is just another Electronic Arts.....Fuck em!!!

  72. to the owner of this blog:

    if you want to reveal icefrog then why you are being such a pussy? reveal yourself if you want to reveal others.

  73. A real Valve employee with proof speaks out:


  75. This blog owner should win a medal of valour. Your expose is making a huge difference to the world and the population of frogs. Keep on the good work.

  76. I gave up on Valve after L4D2 announcement.
    It's like they released Starcraft AND Starcraft 2 within a year.

  77. I found this response on a reply to a Hon Gossip repost of this:

    "I used to work for riot. Just to be clear... Icefrog never worked at riot... they did interview him and found him lacking in team work skills and he asked for to much. Another ex employee has spoken about that... you can find it if you search. Anyway riot was quite shocked that valve would hire him after he was "let go" from s2 because they never would have shipped... or they would have lost a couple of their best employees.

    Anyway since riot has saveral ex-valve employees that (*corrected) tried to warn valve but it was likely 2 late.

    PS: Note that icefrog has a cult like following so i think that a few more bricks will fall before people believe this truth. Sorry icefrog fans."

  78. "DotA sucks. It's like a poor man's WoW."

    Haha, what the hell? It's clear that you've never played DotA, those are not even comparable.

    It's like comparing Mount & Blade with Counter-Strike.

  79. "Eul and Guinsoo have an enormous amount to do with the developement.." thats what I thought aswell. I mean who is icefrog anyways, he did not create Dota at all, he is just the guy who took over the legacy. I think if icefrog is the "only" one in charge for DOTA2 at Valve, the game will suck.

  80. Guy talking about DotA and never played. So retarded.

  81. "There has ALREADY been a lawsuit filed against valve trying to prohibit their use of the DOTA name. Long before this article was published."

    No there hasn't. Neither Guinsoo nor Pendragon have made any legal advance regarding the DOTA name aside from filing for the trademark to DOTA and DOTA All-Stars.

    Also, to back up what others have already claimed, Icefrog never worked for Riot Games. He interviewed with Marc early on for a position with Riot, but he demanded complete creative control and a 200,000 dollar salary. Marc gracefully showed him the door.

  82. I think this "action-RTS" genre or whatever you want to name it really just needs to mature.

    Theres too much of a fascination at the moment with IceFrog, he's just one guy, the genre is simple to understand and theres far more qualified designers out there that can bring the genre to new heights.

    Every developer has a right to enter this market and I think it's the ones that start thinking outside the box that will do it the most justice. IceFrog is just a modder with a lot of time on his hands, it's time to bring the professionals in.

  83. it has never occured to me that the sheer amount of fucking idiots on the internet is so baffling. so this idiot comes out and spews some shit with NO proof and some of you fucktards are actually gobbling it all up.

  84. So? What's the point of this blog?
    What do you want us to do?
    Even if we hate Icefrog for this. We still love the game. So whats the point?
    The only logical thing I see is Pendragon along with his goons butthurt.

    LoL and HoN will die, Just get over it and move on.

  85. "I do not work with him. I simply have many co-workers who do"
    What is this guy's issues?

    First hes not REALLY a coworker of icefrog but JUST know many who do..

    Then he complains what icefrog is doing in their workplace but they're not really "coworkers" you know

    Then he goes a long way of finding too many innacurate past info about icefrog which is really creepy.. which leads to him being a double agent on s2 and riot???.. (wow what an agenda)

    This guys have trouble minding his own business.
    And what was his problem again? I have a hard time understanding his point in all of this..
    If he works at valve(zzz) wasnt he supposed to be busy on his own project instead of those others around him..
    This blog smells FAKE all over the place
    even gameinformer podcast confirmed it

  86. The writer of this blog has some serious mental issues going on. It is very, very obvious that the writer of this garbage does not work for Valve.
    It has the feel of somewon who is upset at icefrog about something. I
    nstead of talking about those issues though, the writer creates a little fantasy. That leads me to believe the reasons he is upset at icefrog are trivial at best and he knows it. This really is just a butthurt troll that probably had his favorite dota class nerfed.


  87. I posted a comment yesterday, about you proving that you were a Valve employee by by telling us a fact about Half-Life 2 Episode Three, and it's mysteriously been deleted.
    If you were really a Valve employee, you would have been able to tell us without incriminating yourself.
    So why has it disappeared?

  88. Why do people care if Valve is re-releasing a game that already exists?

    You guys know Team Fortress was a Quake mod right? And Portal was a stand alone game? And Counterstrike was a Half-Life mod?

    Valve hired the creators of these games to develop these games into full products for them. That's the same thing they are doing with DotA and Icefrog. They aren't stealing their ideas.

  89. @ " I keep waiting for the ZOMG ICEFROG IS A FRAUD AND A THEIF crowd to come up with an explanation for how DotA has thrived more under him than under any previous project leads."

    Simple. Making a really fun game is a lot harder than updating it. Once you have a really fun game, you can just respond to issues as they arise with pretty simple adjustments, and the population of a game grows over time. Why do you think the leads on Ultima Online were unknowns later in development? Why do you think the main play balance person on HUGE titles is often given to an associate designer.

    The reason is that its simply a lot less difficult than making things fun in the first place. It is still hard, but it is a LOT les hard.

    Not to mention DOTA is free to play for most of the world with all the piracy.

    I don't think Icefrog is UNtalented, but calling him awesome or super talented on the basis of what he's achieved so far is really questionable. If he was so talented, why wouldn't he be pushing the gameplay forward in some unexpected new way we'd not heard of???

  90. Valve haven't made an original game in a long time. They have done well by taking established games and polishing them up to a high quality level and then releasing them, which is fine, but they are getting more bold about it...

    TF2, a game based on a mod made outside of valve
    Portal, a game based on a school project developped outside of valve
    L4D, a game based on a CS mod
    Alien Swarm, a port of a UT3 mod
    now Dota2, a stolen game and name...

    Meanwhile episode 3 will be either the second coming or the end of valve...

    Bad manners, bad ethics, lazy design... that aint the valve we learned to love!

  91. How is Left 4 Dead based on a CS modification and which mod are you talking about?

  92. fake and gay

    everyone who is reading this blog is wasting their time

    valuable time that should be spent on hyping yourself up for Fart Cops, VALVe's greatest upcoming game, or masturbating

    your choice

  93. Steven, Left 4 Dead was created when some Valve's bros from Turtle Rock had fun putting on a huge amounts of bots using knife only on one team with a limited number of people on the other, and decided to make a mod out of it. At least according to the Left 4 Dead commentary.

  94. The irony.

    I knew Valve was slowly turning from "For Gamers By Gamers" into a "For Money For Money" studio back when Left4Dead 2 was announced SIX MONTHS after its predecessor and with a all of the content that was promised for L4D 1. New weapons, new special infected and new campaigns.

    It all tells me, instead of fulfilling the promises made for L4D 1, you spent all that time creating the sequel that you'd eventually charge full price for.

    Its been 2 years and those of us who bought L4D on trust of those promises FINALLY get a quality campaign instead of a patch job that was Crash Course and Last Stand. Still no new infected. Still no new weapons.

    I buy multiple games a year, so its not about the money. Its about the promises made that you'd deliver "just like you do for Team Fortress 2." I'd rather you NOT make promises and release a sequel annually to pad your pockets instead of the bait and switch you pulled off with L4D.

    I hope Valve gets milked for all its worth by that lying dirtbag.

    Screw you, Valve. I'm voting with my wallet and won't be buying any more of your games.

  95. It might be interesting to get the perspective of people that know the history of DotA on WC3, or more appropriately, what of DotA was actually IceFrog vs. prior devs, vs. blatantly stolen from other WC3 maps. Cassiel and Windigo of Tides of Blood might be able to give you a whole other angle.

    Also, as I understand, any and all IP put into a WC3 map is wholly owned by Blizzard per the EULA including lore, names, and character concepts. Granted I doubt Blizzard wants to get involved in a lawsuit over this...

  96. The original DotA in Rain Of Chaos was very similar to the current DotA if no mode is selected.

    The terrain looked at from above looks identical a lot of small tweaks were made. Both sides have their own heroes they can choose from. There were no recipes back then so small items were simply sold and better ones bought.

    Although the ingenuity of the Icefrog's Heroes are flat out better. The general game was otherwise the same.

  97. "Steven, Left 4 Dead was created when some Valve's bros from Turtle Rock had fun putting on a huge amounts of bots using knife only on one team with a limited number of people on the other, and decided to make a mod out of it. At least according to the Left 4 Dead commentary."

    According to the commentary, Turtle Rock Studios decided to start protyping for an actual game and not a modification:

  98. @ Original Poster/Blogger/Valve Employee:

    You mentioned that DOTA 2 will remain largely the same as the original DotA. However, HoN is also pretty much the same as the original DotA. Do you think S2 could sue Valve over this issue?

  99. Interesting read, but I've gotta say that shot you took at Erik seems totally out of place with the rest of your writing here.

    Mostly you do sound like a "whistle blower", but then it sounds like a personal vendetta when you have a dig at a guy for his work history.

    A lot of people in good jobs they're well qualified for, started out doing something shitty. Even CEOs were inexperienced once.

    Anyway aside from that it sounds like Valve are changing the way they operate for this guy, and it seems like a bad move. From your report, they should have fired him immediately it was discovered that he lied. Valve has always appeared to be an ethical company, and to violate those ethics... in this case someone's obviously got dollar signs instead of eyes, cartoon style.

  100. i have inside knowledge of this, i worked at one of the companies you mentioned. at the time this happened

    all spot on. absolutely true.

    im posting as anonymous to protect my friends who still work there

  101. your co-worker told you "abdul" was hard to work with, you believe them without ever come into contact with the guy
    so im guessing that when your co worker tell you that your new neighbor is a dick, you believe them too huh

  102. only one thing is certain, there is a war for power.

  103. Come on, people.

    Valve said this is fake, so did Riot Games.

    Erik Wolpaw even made a fucking joke about it.

    You're retards if you actually believe this son of a bitch.

  104. Heroes of Newerth are not going to survive Dota2. League of Legends on the other hand is in fact a different game.

  105. No, Riot Games said Abdul never worked for them. This blog never claims that Abdul worked for Riot, merely that he interviewed with them and got turned down. Of course Valve would say that this is fake... What's more telling is that S2 Games is saying "no comment"...

  106. Hi.
    good on you for taking the plunge, man. can't be an easy jump to make, and whistleblowing is important.

    so (if we take your word for it) icefrog is a jerk...but what about the game? i believe the dota concept in general, and the warIII implementation in particular, to be a genuinely enjoyable much as i feel for those at valve forced to work with the steriotypicaly unprofessional *indie man*, one assumes that he was a core component of the original experience. at the end of the day, what's important is the output...and if the output is a LITERAL dota clone on a better platform, i'm not actually that dissappointed.

  107. lol. Here is the truth

  108. The REAL truth:

    (Someone wants Valve to go down)

    p.s cant believe so many people fell for this

  109. Hey guys, I 100% know all the guys that work at Valve and everything posted here are absolutely true. I am posting as Anonymous to protect my friends. I am 100% right.


  110. You're a fool, nothing more to say.
    Do you really have nothing better to do with your time than making up this rubbish?

  111. ^ maybe he just got fired, hence, more time for this type of bullshits


    I am an Employee from Valve too .
    and Creating DotA was all my idea .
    I created this blog to reveal the shitty
    truth about IceFrog so people will stop playing
    the game . I also work for Riot , Im speaking the truth . Please believe me . Im not revealing
    my information because it's obvious I don't want to lose my job, and I don't want my friends to lose theirs either . One more thing , i dont have many friends . Im lonely and I love Trolling . For your Information , Justin Bieber is my dad . Thanks .

    P/S I love Attention .

  113. Name me a single active DotA player that would NOT want IceFrog to keep doing what he was doing the past 6! years.
    If it requires him to robb a couple of banks and steal some valve employee lollipops I want him to keep doing it so I can keep enjoying my DotA games.
    Thank you.


    says everything

  115. I'm a member of Valve too. My job is primarily concerned with the training of mole rats, but I can see where you're hate of Icefrog comes from. No more than 2 days ago did Icefrog say to me that I'm silly and that my job is of no use to a game development company.
    I was shocked to say the least!
    All I have just said is as true as this blog.

  116. Hey , Im Anonymous from Valve , I do work at Valve. They are really a good company .
    But Icefrogs , Icefrogs has been poisonous to our Company aka Valve . Icefrogs are really lacking with social skills and hard to work with . The reason is pretty obvious , All they do is "ribbit , ribbit " The Only useful thing Icefrogs could do is catch flies and eat them . Its Epic ! t's obvious I don't want to lose my job, and I don't want my friends to lose theirs either . I love Trolling .

  117. This blog in a sense does seem truthful and factual enough to back up whats been said. However what i don't understand is why Valve picked Icefrog?

    I'm pretty sure as multi millionaire gaming company would have done its research on the employee before giving him full control over the project. If he was unsuitable i'm sure valve would have chosen Pendragon or Guinsoo.

    Even thou the two are currently being employed by Riot i'm sure a company as big as Valve could have offered them a placement at Valve to create a newer version of DotA as well.

    Icefrog may have not built the game up, however he did make the game what it is today. I've been playing since early versions of 2.-- so i would know.

    Whoever is writing this blog, if you had the knowledge and abilities and reputation Icefrog holds i'm sure you would want to make some money off it. So i'm sure hes not "reaping off valve" as from what i've seen over the years Icefrog has never promoted his games, like other small games for money.

    Games such as Runescape etc, all have start off small and then projected to bigger projects and started getting money of gamers. Icefrog hasnt once i believe asked any user to buy a ICEFROG T-shirt or ICEFROG Mug. I think its time he earnt some money and so it should be alot due to DotA's increasing popularity growth. So I'm sure hes not reaping off your company.

    Another thing is as a gamer in which you say you are which lead to your career choice, you'd know that any game you play you'd wish to particular characters/classes were nerfed inorder for fair gameplay etc. You would voice out your opinon in hoping it be heard.

    If Icefrog is so antisocial and dominating as you say, not listen to his gamers.

    This clearly isnt the case as he has shown his gamers change logs that indicate their opinons have been heard. As well as like you voicing out his opinons etc. as you've done through a blog.

    I believe this blog may have over exgerated who Icefrog is and seen him as some deeming sort of person who rips of people and takes advantages of his employee's. If all this was true are we meant to take your word for it? Over someone who's dedicated so long to his game and actually does reach out to his community?

    If this is true, i'd like proof.I'm intrested too see if Icefrog is as horrible as you to depict him to be.

    You say your afraid you'll give yourself away, by whistle blowing its true you've already given yourself alot of trouble if your to be caught however, it seems your so dedicated to "whistleblowing" why not just be straight forward and leak things out cause lets be frank you've already comes this far why not prove to this community that what you've said is true. If you were so afraid to begin with, you shouldnt have done it at all.


  119. Honestly I'm not sure what your problem is... I mean, have you acted as the primary developer on a game loved by and played by millions? Certainly Icefrog didn't invent the gameplay mechanics of DotA, but he did popularize it with an incredible amount of effort and polish.

    You are basically saying "this guy is mean and he's worked at other companies before and we didn't know about it." Is that what this is all about? Valve is lucky to have someone who understands their core audience as thoroughly as Icefrog.

    He may be a jerk, but you -cannot- argue with the success of DotA. Is it really so bad he's directing the project? He may be a better lone developer than collaborator, but at the end of the day I can't help but wonder what exactly your problem is.

    I mean, if he's right in terms of creative direction then he is right. Sure, you could have taken DotA and done a ripoff of it and skirted copyright issues without his input, but the gamer audience would -HATE- you for it. Maybe you also lack the understanding of why several DotA players hated LoL, it's because of a vast amount of change.

    The goal, if you're trying to get people to migrate wholesale from DotA to DOTA2 should be incremental change because that's what the player base expects. They don't want a new game, they want a game free of the limitations of the WC3 engine which plays and feels nearly identically to the original with technical improvements but not game mechanic changes.

    Valve should understand this having moved from Counter Strike to Counter Strike: Source. Look at StarCraft 2 vs StarCraft. Competitive gamers get very good at certain gameplay and item configurations and don't like change unless it is gradual and intuitive.

  120. lol I really like this. Very nicely done! I wonder how much time you had to spend on this? :)

    Affordable Web Designer



  122. LOL, 1375 ranked is nothing to brag about. Hey ho, low elo!

  123. Do not worry.

    This IceFrog is clearly young.

    Soon, the Gaben, or, if you prefer, the Gabus shall devour him.

  124. If you don't like work for him then don't hire him at first place. this is about 'his' game and his ambition, ppl will blame him if the game fail not you.

    I know Valve can make their own DoTA version without hiring icefrog. but HoN, Lol, DemiGod, Avalon Heroes, Loco has proved them-self can not outmatch the old DoTA, they still missing something from it. And that's what your company is trying to avoid to do right now.

    I only see that you have phobia-ish with his name is Abdul, you put all his identify on all paragraphs and yours 0, are you sure you not seeing him as terrorist?

  125. This blog and it's comment and content made my day

  126. Jesus H. Christ. You're not a whistle blower. Give me a fucking break. You don't like someone who works at your company, and you think they're a liar and doing a bad job. If I started a blog everytime this happened at my company (not a game company) do you know how many fucking blogs we'd have here? Why does anyone give a shit about this guy?

  127. FakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGayFakeA-HoleandGay
    not homosexual gay no problem with them

  128. I liked your blog, but the dig at Erik seemed kinda unnecessary lols.

  129. Fuck this blog and go play Red Faction.

    Only 2,50 dollars on Steam for both original games.

    You motherfuckers need more communism in your life.

  130. Dear DOTA 2 Team,

    The whole team needs to scheme together to drive him absolutely crazy so that he eventually goes away. Generally the best way to do this is by deliberately misunderstanding instructions, and deliberately working to a not quite acceptable standard unless there have been 15 discussions to fix the problems. This will require the whole team to do it though, otherwise the offenders will be singled out. Good luck!

  131. AW YEAH









  133. Note that Rob Pardo has confirmed Icefrog is Abdul Ismail:

    And he also has agreed that this is "strange" and unethical.

    Seems like everyone is on the same page, but the only guy that isn't talking are trying to hide their identity (Icefrog).

    Props to the poster of this blog. If you feel really strongly about it, maybe apply to companies that value their gamers like Blizzard and Riot?

  134. Better link:

  135. Just shut the fuck up you god awful no good welfare piece of shit nigger

  136. and rob pardo made reference to this blog, seem like he have no reliable source either

  137. Found you out at this comment: "I am not a lawyer, so I do not know much about the legal underpinnings behind this game. I do know that we are using the name DOTA and not DotA or Defense of the Ancients because of any potential legal trouble though."

    The copyright is actually for "Dota" not for "DOTA" as you suggest. It has been falsely reported in several news sources that you have read to gleam information from. The fact you went on to distinguish "DOTA" from "DotA" proves it is not a typo. It shows you looked in the wrong places for your information.

  138. goddamn water nigger

  139. So why is IceFrog no longer listed on Valve people though your link pointed there?

    Just curious

  140. Icefrog merely implemented ideas pitched by the DotA community. In fact, in, there are entire sections dedicated to inputs by the community, from new heroes and items to small balances to the game. These inputs are actually pretty detailed, including everything from spell description to graphics and even pseudocode. Icefrog has to do little more than copy and paste, which is why as you said, you don't really need to hire him to make this game. You people give him too much credit. However, Valve is probably doing this for the name. It's good publicity to say this project is directly made by Icefrog. In the end it comes down to profits. So gg.

  141. I think that it's entirely possible that icefrog has "full creative control" of this project, that's what he says in his blog, anyway..

    From what I've understood, icefrog hadn't been granted full creative control in LoL and HoN respectively, I can also understand the need of an agent, since the person is rather young, having an agent can help so you don't basically sell out your DotA concept for free/get fooled in the progress.

  142. stop hating. his a great developer thats why dota is what dota is today.

  143. Unlike this blogger, I actually know someone from Valve, and according to him IceFrog hasn't been an issue at all. Make of that what you will.

  144. I really don't know what the problem is. He's been given carte blanche on the project and this has put some people's noses out of place. He's done some work for x y z in the past. So?

    Tell your 'Valve mates' to get on with it?

  145. If you're also going to out him and his name and slander him, at least have the balls to back it up by printing your own name and position. You're a coward otherwise.

  146. I doubt I'm gonna get a reply or else see much response from this person but I thought I'd get my 2 cents out after thinking about it.

    I don't see any foul play. I don't even think Valve themselves are somehow steering away even if I take your words for fact.

    Unless you just wanted to 'throw this out here', you've got a lot of work to do convincing the lot of us about your point and if it's significant at all.

  147. Hi there, Not sure if you'll get this but I'm doing a story on whistleblowers for a major gaming magazine and was wondering if I could get you to comment for it anonymously. Feel free to reach out to me at my website if you're interested. Thanks.

  148. Supposing that the allegations presented on this blog are indeed true, I don't think that this is a huge development in and of itself. IMO the means justify the ends in this case; if Icefrog employs a dictatorial style in producing an excellent game, then so be it and deliver and excellent game. What WOULD be of consequence, however, are the particular details of his contractual agreements. If he did work for S2 or Riot, then knowing the specific terms that he worked under would be the only significant development, as those conditions would most likely have a direct impact on the licensing and production of the game.

    Everything else is little more than gossip/fanboy butthurt/etc. Love or hate Icefrog, he's done his part in creating an exceptionally fun genre of game. The proof of whether he is really a hack or not is in the pudding, so to speak.

  149. Icefrog made DOTA. Sorry, guys, I played DOTA before he had his hands on it. Icefrog made it good, Icefrog made it popular. This isn't me being a fanboy. I played it during Guinsoo's ownership. Guinsoo isn't even a lead at Riot.

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  151. Not much more I can add here. I have a friend who worked at Riot who pretty much explained this situation to me.

    I was told that he also used an Agent when interviewing at Riot. He pretty much demanded 100% creative control and ownership of half the company. Of course having only experience in 1 game at the time and no experience working on a team, Riot would have been a fool to accept that offer.

    So after that they found/hired Guinsoo who was much more approachable.

    At some point later he asked for part control of Pendragons website... of course when PD refused he created his own. The intent was most likely to help sell HON however he switched jobs before he could reveal his big secret.

    From an S2 employee I hear that they have been barred from talking about Icefrogs involvement... although I have less contact with those guys.

  152. Us S2 employees are not allowed to talk about Icefrog publicly... however I would recommend that Valve do what we did and get rid of him as soon as you can.

    He is inexperienced at working with a team and will make major mistakes, design calls which will set you back months and your team moral will fall through the roof.

    I can understand why a community who only sees the results would put this guy up with the likes of Jesus and Santa however in reality he's not even at the level of any of our associate in terms of game development skills.

  153. I think you will get more people believing on what you say by manage to post a picture of him and probably include something at the picture that will make it clear that "thats him"

  154. This is pathetic.
    All of the supporters are trolls yelling "Icefrog is (insert capslock swearword).

    What I want to know if what you hope to achieve through this. You're anonymous, you have no real proof, and the only thing that this kind of post will do is perhaps hurt DOTA2 (a little bit) when it comes out.

    Good job. What do you have to gain by this? Catharsis? You yourself said you WEREN'T DIRECTLY INVOLVED.

    This sounds like bullshit. Not that I'm saying it can't be true, but the fact that you hope to have an impact as an ANONYMOUS blogger in 2010 is laughable.

  155. What I believe is that Icefrog:
    a) is bossy and hard to work with because he is a high level game designer and therefor feels superior (not necessarily a good reason, but explainable at least)

    b) lacks communication skills because he worked on DotA mostly by himself (at least that's how much we know)

    c) is very proud of his achievement (which is great indeed, compared only to Markus "Notch" Persson's Mincecraft)

    d) asking to make this a DIRECT 1-1 port with almost everything identical is a genius idea. Let me elaborate on this one: Right now, the number one reason that players don't migrate from DotA to HoN is the differences between the two games, no matter how minor they may be. And I'm telling you this from personal experience.Moreover, I am a HoN gamer and have given up DotA for a year or so, but the moment DOTA 2 -a precise but modern copy of DotA- is available i will give up HoN. If, however, DOTA 2 was also different from the original DotA, then why bother?

    Finally, Valve needs Icefrog for the new content which is DotA's trademark: constant updates with balance fixes, bug fixes and most important: new content. Apparantly, Icefrog is the best known designer for this task, after watching Riot and S2 fail with their new content and balance issues when compared to Icefrog's.

    ps. Only way for DOTA2 to fail is to require monthly payment (like WoW).

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  157. I don't think any of your FUCKS understand that IceFrog has been Dota's developer ever since i have been playing, 6 years now. Fucking guinsoo is just the god damn name on an item to me.

    Dota 2 will rock even if it is a direct copy and paste of the one on frozen throne, because we've all been waiting for a stand alone version of dota. Even if it looks exactly the same and I bet all 11million players will say the same. HOw many uses does fucking LOL and HOn have now? sorry if someone lol developer reads this. I play lol, but if you hate on my Dota, i will close my account and you'd be making $20 less every month. Now fuck off.

  158. The fact that he is named 'Abdul Ismail' is enough evidence for me that he is a shithead.

  159. Meanwhile, a Valve employee responses with "White" when asked on /v/ the nationality of IceFrog.

    "I don't know him, but I see him in the halls. He's white."

    Huh. Abdul, huh?

  160. i dont give a shit about this because i hate dota. why waste time on developing something that has been remade several times and which only koreans and fatasses play anyways. where is left 4 dead 3?
    battlefield 3 will stomp everything else into the ground by the way.

  161. what the f***!! is it true? icefrog is a s***!
    I don't even know this.......

  162. I'm sure the reason Icefrog is in the project is to make sure Dota transfers over from wc3. As a developer I can appreciate how difficult it would be to copy the mechanics exactly. All I can say is, look at LoL and look and HoN. Are they exactly like Dota? No. And the players know the difference. This is Dota2, if the vision is that it's supposed to be exactly like Dota, but better, then Icefrog is just doing his job. Too bad he has no social skills. As a game developer you need to have thick skin and deal with guys like him!

    I hear Valve has no middle management. I bet this is one of the reasons for the conflict. It must make your coworkers very uncomfortable to have a "game director" with no social skills. Give him a closed office and communicate through e-mail, lol.

    Good luck and stay strong.

  163. Bullshit.
    Point 1)Why the hell should S2 pay HIM to let them use updates / heroes, when he doesn't even own them in the first place. It's not his, sadly. S2 could just crave forums and get all the suggestions hanging there and create HoN, since that's what IF does with DotA. Long story short, you are saying that S2 made a contract with Icefrog, to pay him so they can use his updates. BULLSHIT, there is a fucking copyright on blizzard about custom maps, EVERYTHING MADE WITH HER WARCRAFT EDITOR BELONGS TO HER, NOT TO THE CREATOR.
    TL:DR , S2 could steal whatever the fuck they want from DotA and Icefrog couldn't say a thing. Simple as that. So why did they pay him then?

    2)Icefrog did all the job and DotA is where it is today. There isn't even a SINGLE thing left from the Guinsoo era. Mind you, Guinsoos was the one that STOLE from others, go look for DotA history. DotA once upon a time was like 20 different maps and 20 developers, all of them took the map from euls. Then Guinsoos came, took the BEST (the most imbalanced) heroesfrom all these versions and compiled them into one, which he named Allstars cause of the "star" (imbalanced) heroes. Icefrog was actually given the map right after, worked for FREE for like 7-8 years and like 100+ patches to get where he is today. 20 million downloads solely from (not counting bnet downloads or wherever else you can download the map) for each new version is SICK, and I can safely say its the game with the biggest playerbase.

  164. Dota2 will give much more money to Valve than any other game the company has created. They don't care if Icefrog is a meanie bich.

    Icefrog has worked on Dota for 6 years, its understandable if he demands full control on the project.

    1. IceFrog not even creator of Dota!
      So technically he have no rights for DOTA at all, he just tuned and tweaked (not even 6 years, like 3 or 4 to be correct) DOTA created by, damn i forgot name of this guy, and all rights belongs to him and Blizzard, since eula states something like "all your base created with W3E belongs to us". So Valve is pretty much in trouble and Blizzard or original creator of DOTA could sue Icefrog and Valve for plagiarims and and attempt to sieze other's intellectual property. Law isnt of Valve's side and taking DOTA 2 name and making content that looks exactly like Warcraft 3 content was a big mistake! Valve making to many mistakes these days, including removal of Crysis 2 from steam because of built-in DLC store that avoids usage of Steam store, build in store in Portal 2, and more. I suppose after Valve will lose this case in court, this will destroy Valve's reputation and the giant would start to fall, because of stupid decisions of latest years.

  165. this is literally the grossest thing i have ever read :(

    i hope he gets shitcanned.

  166. This blog needs an update

  167. I agree that you should not reveal your identity as people will know who you really are.

    Air Duct Heaters

  168. So you've whistle-blowed just because he lied? and you don't even work with that jerk? Well that's weird but thanx for info.

  169. i think you are just insecure with him...

  170. Well, this is the price of anonymity. No name? Anyone will give you a name. No record? Anyone will make a record.

  171. So let's see, believe an internet trolls word or Gabe Newell? tough choice....

  172. I don't see what's the problem you have with IceFrog/Abdul or whatever his name is.

    He's been doing great with DotA and he did said he wants DOTA 2 experience to be as close as, if not identical to the current DotA.

    This is due to the fact that there are loads of game mechanics in DotA which we hope will be available in DOTA 2 as well, such as wind-walk at a precise moment to avoid certain spells, force staff + meat hook, morphling waveform + blink dagger and much more.

    From both of your post, all I see is that IceFrog is doing his best to ensure DOTA 2 feels like DotA.

  173. EDIT: Clarification to us "porting over" Blizzard's content. I am not saying that we are directly taking their assets, but rather, that Abdul demanded that everything look and sound as close as possible to the Blizzard assets without causing copyright issues.

    Thats what we actually wants with dota2. If i were Icefrog, i might do the same. I would not listen to outside input either. I just want dota2 to be just like dota with some new graphical upgrade and thats it.

  174. Feels like IceFrog Jack Valve of their money and ran like a dog and wait he's muslim ok need that to sink in He should be shot electrocuted brought back to life and shot again

    1. Fuck you, you racist piece of shit

  175. Okay, I just found this blog. And I am hardcore DotA player for over 4 years...
    TBH I do not care what is going on in there, but I do get what your concerns are. Well, it is unethical even if VALVe knew about his past. That is why you are more or less raging WTF is going on. That is why whistle-blowing and rumors spread, but that is for the HR management to deal with. They should've told you in the beginning. And, btw, everyone knew that DOTA 2 would be 1:1 copy of DotA, so I am not entirely sure why you needed IF in the first place... I hope the situation gets well out there, thanks for the info and the balls to do this.




  179. League of Ledends, huh?

  180. need an update on this...

  181. Hey people its feb 07, 2012. Dota 2 is looking really great right now, and at the end of the day, valve will always deliver.

    Fun, polish and good product is what we will see. it's just a matter of price and time.

    and all the previous comments above mine are just meaningless lolololol

  182. well 5 years with wc3:dota , HoN? bitch please NO (simply clone) , yeah icefrog own the dota , he deserve it .
    hon way to gay , shiny , gloomy(theme) and ... worse comunity , some of them who imigrate to LoL just rubbish to LoL community , destroying the mood (well HoN player... understandable) .

    you might say LoL is a joke , then i will use this word which own by Blizzard : Easy to learn Hard to master .

    so i get my key this month for dota2 , i play 1-25 game - well .... not bad but , feel so empty(still beta right?) .your statement is total bias. 1 year with HoN , i cant find it fun , just full of retard, ragers and flamer .

    well .... i not yet try play bloodline champion and few other , i will always stay to dota:wc3(less leaver recently) and LoL( fun , as it is tend to be casual ) .

    what ever map that come from blizzard engine will always look great , cant wait blizzard dota. but dota will win by far as always. but worth trying though . the other engine like HoN , realm titan which i can say warcraft 3 CLONE is just a FAIL(they said their engine better ... hell no! just gayy and FAIL )... at least try be original and intro more features like RotI and LoL .

    so your statement is total dumb and one sided :)

  183. You work at Valve and willing to blow the whistle? Half-Life 3 then. is it in development? That's all I want to know.

  184. lol, this guy claims that all the work on Dota2 can be done without Icefrog. Ok then let's you do it and see how many people would play it.
    I think you are just mad he's getting paid more than what you will earn in your life time.
    Whistle blower my ass. Just shut up and be happy you have a job.

  185. It seems many people had already decided to hate this blog even before they read it, cause they are blind fan-boys.

  186. It also seems many people had already decided to hate dota before they even played one decent game, cause they are blind haters.

  187. Sucks that Valve is going down the shitter. I miss the era when there'd be a steam update telling us about all the work you guys were putting into the engine like HDR for HL2 Lost Coast. For nothing but the love of games.

    Valve use to be a love letter to all the people who played video games; the communication was absurd. What happened? I remember an interview with either Gabe or Doug talking about how they were experimenting with the way they market games; and I always thought that was the reason for the silence over the continuation of Half-Life.

    Is Valve even interested in Half-Life anymore? The new CS:GO looks promising; I don't think it'll be anymore popular than 1.6 but definitely looks like it will completely replace source. So good work whoever the team is working on GO; it's a very fun game as far as I'm concerned. I just wish the maps were a bit more additive than reductive.

    I'm not really a big DOTA fan, so I'll be patiently hoping this guy gets the axe for Valve's sake. And I really hope Valve gets back to being open with it's community; updating us on the work you guys are doing. Sharing. We want the games to be just as awesome as Valve wants to make them. I use to get excited when a Steam news update popped up, now it's just never ending advertisements.

    I hope Valve is aware that Steam can't last forever in it's current state; PC gaming isn't tied to Steam, PC gaming will always be great. Steam got lucky, a generation of gamers are accustomed to it; accept it as part of the PC gaming experience. But these people don't have much chance of breeding.

    Does Valve want to make games? Or do they want to leverage customers to make content for them all the while treating them as if they are just walking bags of money?

  188. "The word going around is that he was denied at Riot Games, got a boatload from S2 Games, and now is reaping the profits from us. Whatever he is being paid, it is ridiculous, because the game is literally identical to DOTA. Everything from voices to art is being transferred over, because he demanded it. This game could have been made without his involvement at all."

    Your last paragraph really shows your misunderstanding of DotA, the game, the community, its history and its future. It's all fine for you to keep saying you care about the games in your white-knight manner, but you have failed to grasp why IceFrog demands the creative control he does.

    DotA Allstars, in its Warcraft III custom map incarnation, existed for many years. It's art, it's sounds, have become iconic of the map itself. I'm really not sure how you can have a "DotA 2" that bears little/no resemblance to the original.

    It is something that all original players of DotA Allstars can relate to, so that it is a "true sequel" if you will.

    For example, take Diablo 3's failure compared to the success of Diablo 2. Diablo 3 might have been the "fastest selling video game of all time" - but it sold on its name only. Blizzard chose to fire the original makers of Diablo/Diablo 2 and put together their own team to make Diablo 3. Look what happened - I daresay, in over 10 years of computer gaming I have never seen a community so negative about a game.

    You claim DotA 2 could have been made without IceFrog's contribution - that is bullshit. Valve made the right decision to hire the man who had developed this game for years, he is someone even the fans trust - because he has a track record of producing great content updates and polish to the original Warcraft III custom map.

    I would hate to see what Dota 2 would have become if it was made without any input from IceFrog at all. He just wants to create the perfect MOBA experience, and I am confident many ex-DotA players have been pleased with how DotA 2 has turned out.

  189. it is obvious that the guy writing this has no idea what he is talking about considering the fact that he does not know much about dota. Whoever wrote this is a joke. He is just jealous of icefrog for the fact that icefrog is new to the company but earn a LOT more than the guy who wrote this

  190. Obviously a bunch of bs. Riot employee...?

  191. I do not know English, Sorry for not literate but translation from google translator!
    I've stumbled on the fact that you were talking about that IceFrog all copies of DotA, and I'll tell you this: if DOTA2 would not have been copied from DotA, I would not play DOTA2! I have 6 years experience playing DotA, and I can tell you that it is so difficult in the gameplay that you imagine it can not!
    DotA does not have so many fans comparing to other games, and you know why? because in DotA are successful only those who are not stupid, but a fool will stop playing it because it is too complex!
    I know the translation is bad, but I hope that the thought passed)))))

  192. EVERYTHING YOU FOOLS?:?? DOTA is incredibly difficult without the involvement of IceFrog it would not have SUCCESS! JUST A VALVE TO MORAL Degrading DOTA FANS!
    IceFrog MUST take complete control of the game, MUST!
    I'm telling you as a player and a fan of DOTA
    Sorry for the bad translation)